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What If Ukraine Wins?
Foreign Affairs ^ | 06-JUN-2022 | Liana Fix and Michael Kimmage

Posted on 06/12/2022 8:33:22 AM PDT by SpeedyInTexas

In recent days, many Western observers of the war in Ukraine have begun to worry that the tide is turning in Russia’s favor. Massive artillery fire is yielding incremental Russian gains in eastern Ukraine’s Donbas region, and Russia is bringing in new forces. Ukrainian troops are drained and exhausted. Russia is trying to create a fait accompli and to make reality conform to its imperial ambitions through “passportization”—the quick provision of Russian passports to Ukrainian citizens in Russian-occupied areas—and the forced introduction of Russian administrative structures in Ukrainian territory. The Kremlin likely intends to occupy eastern and southern Ukraine indefinitely and to eventually move on Odessa, a major port city in southern Ukraine and a hub of commerce that connects Ukraine to the outside world.

Looking at the big picture, however, things look less than rosy for Moscow. The list of Ukraine’s military achievements is long and getting longer. Ukrainian forces won the battle of Kyiv; successfully defended the southern city of Mykolaiv, keeping Odessa out of reach for the invading armies, at least for the time being; and prevailed in the battle of Kharkiv, a city right across from the Russian border. Russia’s recent gains pale in comparison. And unlike the Kremlin, the government in Kyiv has a clear strategic purpose, buttressed by excellent morale and widening assistance from abroad.

(Excerpt) Read more at foreignaffairs.com ...


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: crackreporterslol; ukrainefappersthread
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Me thinks Ukraine will win.
1 posted on 06/12/2022 8:33:22 AM PDT by SpeedyInTexas
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To: SpeedyInTexas

Win what exactly? What prize will crooked Zelensky win? He’ll take his millions and retire in Switzerland.


2 posted on 06/12/2022 8:36:39 AM PDT by BipolarBob (Where is Biden leading us and what's with the hand basket")
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To: BipolarBob

Little Pukin is the richest man in the world from all the money he stole from the RuZZian people. Zelkensky has nothing on him.


3 posted on 06/12/2022 8:37:53 AM PDT by SpeedyInTexas (The Only Good RuZZian is a Dead RuZZian)
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To: BipolarBob

As opposed to Putin taking the money.

There are no good guys in this, just bad and very bad.


4 posted on 06/12/2022 8:37:54 AM PDT by for-q-clinton (Cancel Culture IS fascism...Let's start calling it that!)
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To: SpeedyInTexas

“Ukraine will win” is the new “safe and effective”.


5 posted on 06/12/2022 8:38:31 AM PDT by Chunga85 (An arrogant govt combined with and ignorant population is a recipe for disaster.)
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Then the demonrats get to keep their money laundromat and prodigal son employment agency


6 posted on 06/12/2022 8:40:03 AM PDT by dsrtsage ( Complexity is just simple lacking imagination)
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To: SpeedyInTexas

yea but the Ukes achievements are mostly on twitter while Russians are doing it on the ground and in the battlefield.
.
slowly and steadily ukes lose territory every day....

Clashes between the AFU and Russian forces continue near Bohorodychne;
Russian forces took control of Severodonetsk Airport;
Russian forces took control of the village of Pryshyb;
Clashes between the AFU and Russian forces continue in the Azot plant and nearby districts in Severodonetsk city;
Russian forces secured the area of Church of Saint George;
The DPR command announced the beginning of the battle for the city of Slavyansk;
Clashes between the AFU and Russian forces continue along the Bakhmut-Lisichansk road.
donbass map at link
https://s2.cdnstatic.space/wp-content/uploads/2022/06/11june2022_Eastern_Ukraine_Izyum_Severodonetsk_map.jpg


7 posted on 06/12/2022 8:41:40 AM PDT by CarolinaReaganFan
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To: for-q-clinton
There are no good guys in this, just bad and very bad.

Agreed. It's global.

8 posted on 06/12/2022 8:42:49 AM PDT by BipolarBob (Where is Biden leading us and what's with the hand basket")
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To: SpeedyInTexas
What means "win"?

The destruction is done. It can not be undone.

If Putin dies and his successor disengages in Ukraine, he will likely retain control of some Ukraine territory.

THAT is as close to a "win" as Ukraine can hope for.

9 posted on 06/12/2022 8:43:04 AM PDT by G Larry (Anybody notice that Satan is hard at work?)
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To: SpeedyInTexas

I think that next, Hell will freeze over.

It’s already all decided, anyway. Biden, Putin and the Penist are just playing their parts.


10 posted on 06/12/2022 8:45:08 AM PDT by Empire_of_Liberty
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To: Chunga85

Good one.


11 posted on 06/12/2022 8:45:39 AM PDT by Obadiah ("America is facing a winter of severe illness and death." Biden's own summary of his America.)
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To: SpeedyInTexas

I really don’t give a schiff if Ukraine wins or loses. I still have no interest in Ukraine. Our nation still has no interest in Ukraine. Ukraine is corrupt. Russia is corrupt. Our government is corrupt. Instead of caring what happens to Ukraine we need to focus every ounce of energy on fixing what is wrong in America.


12 posted on 06/12/2022 8:45:52 AM PDT by ConservativeInPA (Scratch a leftist and you'll find a fascist )
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To: SpeedyInTexas
Ukraine’s War of Attrition

So, on the macro level, Ukrainians are normal people and have no real victories to celebrate and kindle hope that they will prevail. On the micro level, i.e. the battlefield in Donbas, the news is even more grim. Entrenched troops are experiencing continued artillery and missile attacks. It is not only the devastating effects of the explosions tearing up earth and men, the noise and blast waves rattle the brains and souls of those on the receiving end of the Russian offensive. Yes, some Ukrainian units are able to fire artillery rounds into Russian lines and on civilians in cities like Donetsk. But these efforts are not changing the dynamic on the battlefield.

Ukrainian men are voting with their feet. Unlike the American youth who besieged U.S. military recruiting stations, Ukraine’s youngsters are being forcibly pressed to “join up”. Many are fleeing Ukraine for safety in Europe. As I noted in a previous post (see UPDATED PIECE on Ukrainian Troops Rebelling), Ukrainians with the territorial defense are rebelling and being charged with desertion. We are not talking about isolated units, this revolt is widespread.

Unlike boxing, where there is a referee who can step in and stop a fight, this war of attrition will not end until the Ukrainian army surrenders or Ukrainian political leaders come to their senses and seek an end to Russia’s “special military operation.” As long as Russia maintains its control of the air space and its ability to shell relentlessly the entrenched Ukrainian forces, the grinder will go on and Ukraine’s bargaining chips will be shredded and worthless.

13 posted on 06/12/2022 8:46:40 AM PDT by kabar
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To: SpeedyInTexas

Russia has four times the population of Ukraine and ten times the GDP. But both countries are going to completely lose a generation of young men to the war as well as to those fleeing the country. All of Europe had an enormous generation gap after WW I as so many young men had been killed. The same thing is shaping up here, but restricted (so far) to Ukraine and Russia.


14 posted on 06/12/2022 8:48:09 AM PDT by ProtectOurFreedom (Wanting to make America great isn’t an insult unless you’re trying to make it worse! ULTRAMAGA!!)
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To: G Larry
"The destruction is done. It can not be undone."

Sure it can. All it takes is money and time. Europe did it with US help (Marshall Plan).

15 posted on 06/12/2022 8:49:54 AM PDT by Wonder Warthog (Not Responding to Seagull Snark)
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To: SpeedyInTexas
When the Lysychansk cauldron is cut off and then mopped up, the Russians will be able to shorten their front lines around the pocket from over 120KM to just 22KM.

This will deal a crushing blow to UAF capability and morale, and it will free up dozens of Russian BTGs for other movements toward Kharkiv, Dnipro, and/or Mykolaiv.


16 posted on 06/12/2022 8:49:57 AM PDT by Travis McGee (EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com)
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To: Chunga85

Zelensky only needs “2 weeks to flatten the curve.” He was also quoted as saying to American taxpayers “Just the tip!”


17 posted on 06/12/2022 8:53:09 AM PDT by WMarshal (Neocons and leftists are the same species of vicious rat.)
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To: SpeedyInTexas

The Russian “win” requires that Ukraine stop attacking their forces and turn over land to Russia. This is politically unacceptable to the majority of Ukrainians.

The Ukrainian “win” requires that Russia give up their claims on Ukrainian soil. All Ukraine has to do is make the continued occupation too costly and prevent the commercial usage of the land and resources.

Russia has the much harder path to victory.


18 posted on 06/12/2022 8:54:29 AM PDT by taxcontrol (The choice is clear - either live as a slave on your knees or die as a free citizen on your feet.)
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To: CarolinaReaganFan

Your detailed knowledge of Ukrainian geography is highly unusual for a “CarolinaReaganFan”.


19 posted on 06/12/2022 8:57:02 AM PDT by exinnj
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To: Wonder Warthog
Sure it can. All it takes is money and time. Europe did it with US help (Marshall Plan).

Zelensky estimates it will take $800 billion to rebuild and he would like to start doing it immediately. Who funds that? We have already given Ukraine $60 billion, including paying for their government salaries and pensions. We had to borrow that money to pay for it.

The US is headed for a deep recession and inflation roars ahead. The global economy is in deep sh*t. We have neither the money or the time. America First.

20 posted on 06/12/2022 8:58:43 AM PDT by kabar
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