Posted on 06/07/2022 11:34:37 AM PDT by Mount Athos
NATO refuses to give Russia guarantees not to deploy nuclear weapons in Sweden and Finland if they join the alliance. This was stated by Assistant Secretary General of the alliance Camille Grand, RTS reports.
When Grand was asked about any guarantees of non-deployment of nuclear weapons in Sweden and Finland, he said that each NATO member country decides "sovereignly" on the issue of nuclear weapons. "Every state has the freedom in the nuclear sphere, and is willing to accept or not to accept weapons. It is not about setting limits", he added.
The politician was also asked whether NATO expects a "military reaction" or a "show of force" from Russia in response to the entry of Finland and Sweden into the alliance. He answered that the Russians themselves consider this not necessary, and that he doesn't think it would be justified. At the same time, the Assistant Secretary General of NATO argued that Finland and Sweden have a "defensive position of peaceful states that do not seek confrontation with Russia".
Grand also expressed his hope that the disagreements between Turkey, Sweden and Finland would be settled by the summit. "NATO has its own way of dealing with the problem of terrorism. The Turks make more political demands on Finland", he noted.
Earlier, Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan said that the country's position on the question of expanding NATO and joining the alliance of Sweden and Finland will not change without fulfilling Ankara's demands. According to him, for a membership in the North Atlantic bloc, countries must stop supporting terrorism, lift sanctions against Turkey, and also show allied solidarity.
“Keep poking the bear.”
Too funny. Russia has nukes right in the middle of eastern NATO: Kaliningrad, nestled snuggly between Poland and Lithuania.
Just a targeting glitch would hit the major CIVILIAN population areas of Russia....
You think they'd understand? I'm pretty sure that the pin heads in Brussels might have a nice conference with power point presentations and flights out of Europe ASAP if things got "froggy".
But where to fly to?
So, do you have some point to your word salad, besides that you seem to hate the USA?
“It needs buffer zones and that’s why they will need to destroy, control or take everything to the east of central Romania (look at a topographic map), Ukraine, Belarus and the Baltics.”
Well, Russia kind of jumped the gun, eh? You said Russia needs to destroy, control or take everything EAST of...Ukraine. Then what in the hell is Russia doing invading Ukraine if the goal was everything EAST of Ukraine? Kind of sounds like Russia went WEST from that line in invading Ukraine, eh?
Yes. I was wrong on direction. But if you look at the map you’ll see what I mean.
Of course, Putin could just be mean and invaded Ukraine because he just felt like it.
Usually look at what people do and not what they say.
People should be afraid of what might happen if someone underestimates Russia and what they are capable and willing to do.
This is simply an "Appeal to Fear." You are essentially saying: Since we can't know with absolute certainty what anyone else in the world might do in the future, we should be "paralyzed with fear" and either do nothing are accede to all their demands.
Ukraine will be Beirut, Syria, Chechnya... leveled to rubble and corpses.
Oh, WHAT A MINUTE! Someone DOES know the future! Dick Vomer knows exactly how this is going to play out! His crystal ball told him so!
We participated and encouraged them to poke the bear... with the “color revolutions”, the little pokes of Russian 3rd world status, and finally by putting a country on their border with an alliance specifically designed to combat Russia.... possibly even planting nukes and bioweapons there as a deterrent.
Yes, we know: ORANGE MAN BAD! It's all America's fault! Mean tweets! We hurt Putin's "widdle" feelings!
Russia in NOT going to allow Ukraine to be a NATO gun and extend the border Russia has to defend by thousands of kilometers... They will level the entire country and do what the Mongols did to Baghdad and the Romans to Carthage.... burn everything, salt the fields, fill the canals and kill anyone around.
Yes, the doom-and-gloomer Dick Vomer and his crystal ball again!
Russia doesn’t have the men and material to defend a border from the Gulf of Finland to the Azov Sea.
Yes, that's right... So the only rational alternative in the face of this superior force (coalition of 32 First World Nations plus Japan plus S. Korea plus Australia, etc.) is to withdraw from Ukraine and settle things by negotiation.
It needs buffer zones and that’s why they will need to destroy, control or take everything to the east of central Romania (look at a topographic map), Ukraine, Belarus and the Baltics.
You are overly concerned about what "Russia needs."
We would not allow Russia/China to put missiles, naval bases or airbases in Tijuana, Matamoros, Bahamas, Quebec, Montreal or Cuba.
Fallacious comparison. You are tacitly comparing the U.S. - the world's preeminent military power, and the head of a 32-nation-strong coalition - with a 3rd-rate military power (albeit with nukes).
The scenario you are painting is blatant science fiction. (Russian airbases in Canada?! REALLY?!)
If China and Russia were “smart” they’d put a naval base in Cuba, and offer to join an alliance with Canada for trade in oil and natural resources that China needs. Then have China build a super port and a refinery in British Columbia and another on the Eastern shore of Canada in a “joint” free trade venture.
Again, a ludicrous scenario! You might as well postulate the government-in-exile of the Confederate States of America joining forces with the secret Nazi Moonbase to threaten the U.S.! Your attempts at contrafactual history are amusing, but cannot be taken seriously!
As for Putin dying.. ... we are all dying. But be careful for what you wish for....
Nope, not gonna be careful 'bout that! Wish he would drop dead in his tracks at this very moment!
Regards,
Are you saying that Russia was "smart" to invade Ukraine!? Hah!
As history shows, many such countries attempting to "move" like that will fail miserably.
Sometimes it is "smarter" to negotiate peacefully, you know!
Regards,
Sorry, overlooked this one fragment of your "word salad."
Are you seriously comparing the situation in WWII (with the massive Soviet Union being invaded by their erstwhile allies, the genocidal Nazis) with the situation today, where a shrunken Russia (with a paltry 145 million inhabitants) has NOT been invaded from the west?!
Regards,
Alex: Are you saying that Russia was "smart" to invade Ukraine!?
JoSixChip: No, I'm saying Russia was provoked.
I don't mind so much conversing here with people who are under-informed, unable to comply with basic rules of grammar, are hot-tempered, or prone to fallacious reasoning - but it is very irritating to converse with a person who contradicts himself!
Regards,
I apologize for the “word salad” or as my wife says, “you just vomit on the page sometimes”.
First of all, thank you for reading what I posted.
I try to organize my thoughts but this Ukrainian war is, like you stated, more complicated than just Putin being mean. That’s what leads me to try to get all my thoughts and observations down and then to see if others see what I think I see and read.... or am I just wrong about this entire situation and should just trust that Joe, JCOS and our intelligence community is honest, competent and disciplined enough to deal with the Russian sociopath.
Secondly, I DON’T know what is going to happen. THAT is my point. NOBODY knows what is going to happen when a war starts. Once the fighting starts, there are so many variables (humans are messy that way) that predicting which “side” wins or what are the results won’t be known for a long time.
I am just writing what I think will happen and possibly WHY.
I will address your analysis of my fallacious assumptions.
1. I don’t want to appeal to fear but to take a threat seriously. A two year old can have a temper tantrum and a six year old can punch me in the arm and say, “I hate you and wish you’d die.”.... But a 23 year old sociopath with a weapon walking by my house with a pistol in his hand and telling me to get back in my house will get my attention and I’d try to do as you say....have an alliance “Gather a group and deal with the man or leave him alone.”
But accommodations will have to be made and he will have to be dealt with. Is it worth killing him, disarming him... will my neighbors and the cops help me put him away or will he get a strongly worded warning and come back and kill my family and me later.... and maybe I’d like to figure out why he was walking down the street with a gun in the first place.
That’s what I mean by trying to put a motive on what Russia is doing. Why do you think Putin decided to invade Ukraine? I don’t really care about what Russia “needs” but I sure would like to know what they think they “need” in order to plan for war or other problems that may develop.
2. This isn’t about “Orange man bad”. He was the one that actually didn’t go around starting wars and tried to get us out of the nation building bullsh#t of spreading Jeffersonian democracy to countries and cultures that don’t want to have ever had it.
If you don’t think the “color” revolutions are not CIA/Deep state election rigging to put pro-western leaders in place, well I think you’d benefit from looking into it. Of course I may have misinterpreted or just come to the wrong conclusions.
My comparisons about missile bases, etc...are to see the world from how Russia may see the world. They are scenarios that would let us see what or how Russia may feel threatened. I don’t think we’d like Russian naval assets with nukes in Cuba or Mexico or Canada.
As far as sci-fi Chinese expansion..... well China is already expanding in South and Central America with Hutchison-Whampoa and Landbridge Group operating the ports on both ends of the Panama Canal and plans for building a larger canal in Nicaragua.... That’s what I meant, look at the world through the eyes of your enemy and see what he sees.
The last comment about the 30 million dead Russians is to point out that losing thousands of men and material are difficult but the Russian culture is still familiar with great loss of life in it’s recent past.
You and I are not invading Russia but they may “feel” the threat of nuclear missiles that are minutes from their capital and the majority of their paltry 145 million inhabitants.
I don’t feel like sacrificing a son, nephews and friends in defense of Lithuanian freedom, Estonian liberty or a corrupt government in Ukraine that has bought the best friends money can buy in our executive and legislative branches of government.
Just look at the results of the great minds in dealing with this Ukrainian invasion... the Ruble’s value, the crippling of the world food production, our “allies” buying Russian oil with Rubles and we just drift into an economic and cultural mess.
Meanwhile the lobbyists, family members of Senators/Presidents/Congress and Raytheon, General Dynamics etc.. get a pay day.
I am just worried about what will be coming down the road and how our country and my family will be affected.
Finally, I just have an aversion to anything that is so robustly supported by the democrat party and msm.
I just don’t trust the party that throws a man with 3 Purple Hearts in our face as an environmental scion and strategic thinker or drags the body of a POG JAG officer with a Bronze Star in front of Gold Star family members then compares him to the that served in actual combat.
warmest regard and respectfully
Vomer
Glad that that remark of mine ("word salad") wasn't taken as a provocation.
First of all, thank you for reading what I posted.
You seem sincere, so I have given you the benefit of the doubt. There are, unfortunately, a significant number of BAD ACTORS – people not arguing in good faith and/or deliberately attempting to disrupt and undermine civil discourse – here at Free Republic, and I sometimes forget to check the name of the person to whom I am responding with the tentative list of agents provocateurs I've compiled for my own use, so I sometimes am unduly harsh in my replies. Thanks for your forbearance!
Secondly, I DON'T know what is going to happen. THAT is my point. NOBODY knows what is going to happen when a war starts. Once the fighting starts, there are so many variables (humans are messy that way) that predicting which "side" wins or what are the results won't be known for a long time.
Nor do I KNOW what's going to happen. But it's a popular tactic of the aforementioned BAD ACTORS to pretend to be "concerned" and even frightened, in an attempt to sow fear and paralyze our resolve.
1. I don't want to appeal to fear but to take a threat seriously. A two year old can have a temper tantrum and a six year old can punch me in the arm and say, "I hate you and wish you'd die.".... But a 23 year old sociopath with a weapon walking by my house with a pistol in his hand and telling me to get back in my house will get my attention and I'd try to do as you say....have an alliance "Gather a group and deal with the man or leave him alone." But accommodations will have to be made and he will have to be dealt with. Is it worth killing him, disarming him... will my neighbors and the cops help me put him away or will he get a strongly worded warning and come back and kill my family and me later.... and maybe I'd like to figure out why he was walking down the street with a gun in the first place.
A fair analogy! (But I would still rather die on my feet than live, groveling on my knees – so I will NOT automatically choose the alternative offering the absolute highest likelihood of survival!)
That's what I mean by trying to put a motive on what Russia is doing. Why do you think Putin decided to invade Ukraine? I don't really care about what Russia "needs" but I sure would like to know what they think they "need" in order to plan for war or other problems that may develop.
Just how do you propose to go about finding out what Putin really "needs?" Not by listening to him, I hope! He would be a fool to reveal his "true" motives! And not by "putting yourself in his place," I hope! Try that with Charles Manson! Or even with Premier Xi! Their mentalities and outlooks are far too foreign for you to empathize with them. Putin is a billionaire socio-path, former KGB, perhaps suffering a terminal illness; can you honestly say that you are capable of "putting yourself into his shoes?!"
My comparisons about missile bases, etc...are to see the world from how Russia may see the world. They are scenarios that would let us see what or how Russia may feel threatened. I don't think we'd like Russian naval assets with nukes in Cuba or Mexico or Canada.
The fact remains that such scenarios (a foreign superpower installing missile bases in Mexico or Canada) are totally outlandish! That you have to imagine such preposterous scenarios only goes to show that it is, from the get-go, unrealistic to compare Russian geopolitical interests and American ones in this way.
As far as sci-fi Chinese expansion..... well China is already expanding in South and Central America with Hutchison-Whampoa and Landbridge Group operating the ports on both ends of the Panama Canal and plans for building a larger canal in Nicaragua.... That's what I meant, look at the world through the eyes of your enemy and see what he sees.
This latter issue you bring up is a legitimate one – but not comparable to Russia/Ukraine; no one in Central America is joining (or threatening to join) an opposing military alliance, nor is the U.S. invading and rocket-bombing any C. American country or launching a land-grab. Please discuss it ELSEWHERE.
The last comment about the 30 million dead Russians is to point out that losing thousands of men and material [sic; you mean: materiel] are difficult but the Russian culture is still familiar with great loss of life in it's [sic!] recent past.
Please don't get carried away! We are as yet no where near that situation.
You and I are not invading Russia but they may "feel" the threat of nuclear missiles that are minutes from their capital and the majority of their paltry 145 million inhabitants.
In trying to empathize with the Russians (a course which I would again advise against), let's please not forget to think about ourselves! The Russians have nuclear submarines off our coasts, and thus we, too, are existentially threatened. The Russians are not "special" in this respect! And are thus not deserving of any "special" consideration.
I don't feel like sacrificing a son, nephews and friends in defense of Lithuanian freedom, Estonian liberty […]
Right now, Ukrainian soldiers (and civilians) are dying for your and my liberty. It is not their intention to do so, but their actions are having a net positive effect for us by thwarting Putin, revealing Russia to be a second-rate power with a third-class strategy, and degrading Russian military assets. And don't confuse the Ukrainian govt. with the Ukrainian people!
Just look at the results of the great minds in dealing with this Ukrainian invasion... the Ruble's value, the crippling of the world food production, our "allies" buying Russian oil with Rubles and we just drift into an economic and cultural mess.
Chicken Little! Again with the attempt to incite panic, instill defeatism and perhaps even nihilism! "Oh, it's all so complicated! So messy! I wish it were simpler! So let's give up and/or withdraw from engagement."
As Americans, we don't have that luxury!
Meanwhile the lobbyists, family members of Senators/Presidents/Congress and Raytheon, General Dynamics etc.. get a pay day.
Irrelevant! Again with the "Demand for Perfection" Fallacy! You are overly fastidious! Go back to your bridge club and drinking tea with the ladies. Politics is a dirty business!
I am just worried about what will be coming down the road and how our country and my family will be affected.
Well, then maybe a worry-wart like you shouldn't concern himself with such unpleasant matters. We are all free to delve into these matters, to educate ourselves, to weigh matters, and to express our considered opinions – but to simply cry "Worry! Worry! Worry!" is unproductive.
Finally, I just have an aversion to anything that is so robustly supported by the democrat party and msm.
Sorry that the world is so complicated for you! Sorry that bad people sometimes – by shear coincidence – support good positions! As Churchill said, "If the Hitler invaded hell, I would make at least a favorable reference to the devil in the House of Commons."
I just don't trust the party that throws a man with 3 Purple Hearts in our face as an environmental scion and strategic thinker or drags the body of a POG JAG officer with a Bronze Star in front of Gold Star family members then compares him to the [sic; something missing here?] that served in actual combat.
Irrelevant! Our mutual distaste (to put it mildly) towards the Democratic Party has no bearing upon the illegitimacy of the Russian invasion!
Regards,
Eat Shit, you condescending prick. How is my grammar now?
Their mentalities and outlooks are far too foreign for you to empathize with them. Putin is a billionaire socio-path, former KGB, perhaps suffering a terminal illness; can you honestly say that you are capable of "putting yourself into his shoes?!
Well maybe not the billionaire, sociopath, former KGB but, certain "types" of behavior can be gathered by what men DO, not but what they say. Or if you do listen to what they say, see how it relates to the actions they take after speaking their lies or truths.
He told Chechnya he would destroy them if they continued to strike at Russia, he murdered over 100,000 civilian and did level the capital. He stated he would use force in Georgia because they were committing "genocide" , he did kill several thousand (estimates) and lost many Russian soldiers wounded and killed.
He stated that Crimea was vital to Russia and would take it by force if necessary, he did.
He declared individuals "enemies of the state" and should be "dealt with", he murdered/maimed dissidents and opponents.
He stated that he would militarily support Syria from islamic terrorist rebels... he did.
He said that he would consider NATO expansion into Ukraine a military threat and he would stop it.... he did.
Now he is saying that supplying Ukraine with precision missiles capable of being armed with nukes a threat and he would destroy transport, storage and importing facilities. He would also consider those that supply nukes or those weapons to Ukrainians as combatants and consider them hostile forces.
I'm thinking that he might start hitting railheads, highways, airports and depots anywhere they can.
I know that Russia has subs off our coast with nuclear platform capabilities, just like we do.
As for your final comment about the illegitimacy of the Russian invasion.... I'm not saying it was legitimate, I'm just stating that it doesn't matter if it is legitimate or not.. it's happened and now we have to deal with the fact that they are destroying the Ukrainian country and all it's infrastructure.
They aren't going to "occupy" Ukraine but either make them a puppet state or cripple them to such a degree that they will never be a threat to join NATO.
my "understanding" toward Putin and his actions in Ukraine are understandable and have been around since men have ruled over men... Machiavelli stated “… he who becomes master of a city accustomed to freedom and does not destroy it, may expect to be destroyed by it, because it always has liberty and its ancient rights as a way of uniting a rebellion. Neither time nor benefits will ever cause it to forget these. Whatever you may do to protect against rebellion, the people never forget freedom or their old rights unless they are scattered."
That's why you have millions of displace refugees leaving Ukraine
and
"If There is no avoiding war; it can only be postponed to the advantage of others.
Men ought either to be indulged or utterly destroyed, for if you merely offend them they take vengeance, but if you injure them greatly they are unable to retaliate, so that the injury done to a man ought to be such that vengeance cannot be feared."
I am not a Putin supporter, just an observer of current events.
I am an American and love OUR country.
You have "latched on" to only a single point (the putative validity of attempting to "understand" Putin). Can I thus assume that you have tacitly conceded the other points - i.e., that you have accepted my refutations?
Regards,
you haven’t made a point other than to politely disagree with my views. What concession am I supposed to make?
Why do you think Putin invaded Ukraine? Did he want to destroy Ukraine’s Oil/natural gas production and crush the competition, buffer to NATO, to defend Russians in the eastern areas of Ukraine?
Do you think that Russia is “losing” or is going to “lose” the war/invasion/security operation?
What do you think Putin will do about the Baltic area, Moldova, Romania etc..?
"Right now, Ukrainian soldiers (and civilians) are dying for your and my liberty. It is not their intention to do so, but their actions are having a net positive effect for us by thwarting Putin, revealing Russia to be a second-rate power with a third-class strategy, and degrading Russian military assets. And don't confuse the Ukrainian govt. with the Ukrainian people!
Ukraine isn't doing anything but bleeding and dying in a pile of rubble... hahahaha
"my liberty" isn't dependent on Ukrainians but I do agree that useful intel is being gleaned by looking at tactics and how technology is changing strategic and tactical movement to combat for massed troops in attack and defense in depth.
Drones, precision guided anti-tank/anti-aircraft shoulder fired weapons and sigint with satellites, drones and monitoring web reports for up to date intel on movements/damage and targeting.
It's a new world on the battlefield with Nagorno-Karabakh and Ukrainian conflict giving us video evidence of the changing face of battle.
I chuckled when you said how Russia is exposed as a "second-rate power with a third-class strategy" and how Russian military assets are being "degraded".....I wonder what others are saying about our Armed Forces when they study our military efforts in Vietnam, Korea and Afghanistan........
With that statement, you demonstrate a level of callousness that I had not expected.
In your multiple postings in this thread, you have repeatedly enjoined us to try to understand what Putin wants / what is motivating him. You have repeatedly exhorted us to attempt to empathize with him and "see things from his position."
But at no point did you express any sympathy with the Ukrainian people, or empathize with the tremendous suffering they are experiencing as a consequence of Putin's "Special Military Operation."
You haven't really acknowledged the enormous human suffering - deaths of innocent men, women, and children - which Putin has caused.
There is a huge conflagration currently taking place right smack dab in the middle of Eastern Europe, and the fact that that represents a gross violation of the post-WWII norms and standards of behavior among civilized states doesn't seem to register with you.
Your apparent callous disregard for the blatant immorality of Putin's aggression gives me pause.
I chuckled when you said how Russia is exposed as a "second-rate power with a third-class strategy" and how Russian military assets are being "degraded"
I'm sorry, but I fail to be amused by the vast loss of life and destruction currently being wrought by the Russian invaders. I am now beginning to wonder about your motives.
Regards,
In my posting #52, I dissected your previous postings, quoting liberally, and refuted each and every discernible argument you had thus far presented, one by one. (Admittedly, some of your "points" were so dull/blunt - i.e., vague - as to be almost unfalsifiable.)
Where I did not outright refute one of your statements, I at least indicated where it was incomplete or partly subjective.
I realize that the format of Free Republic makes formal debate extremely challenging, but one could at least try. Instead, you are glossing over / ignoring extensive counterarguments I have presented. Kind of makes dialoging with you pointless.
Why do you think Putin invaded Ukraine? Did he want to destroy Ukraine’s Oil/natural gas production and crush the competition, buffer to NATO, to defend Russians in the eastern areas of Ukraine?
When, at 3 a.m., I hear a disturbance - breaking glass, etc. - in my downstairs living room, and this is the third time in as many years that my residence was the target of a break-in / burglary, I don't wonder WHY this is happening!
Instead, I grab my handgun and proceed to the downstairs.
When I confront the burglar(s), I don't ask about motives ("Was this part of some gang initiation rite?" "Does the poor fellow need money for drugs?" "Did they MISTAKENLY break into my residence, thinking that it was a drug-house, with stacks of money and drugs lying about?" "Is this some disturbed neighbor boy with a grudge to settle?" "Are these frightened kids, or hardened criminals?")
No, I simply see an armed intruder standing in my living room at 3 a.m., and fire three or four times to the center of mass.
You are doggedly attempting to unnecessarily psychologize Putin's aggressive actions. One could even believe that you were attempting to lend some validity to his actions and distract from the clear-cut response that we should mount. We aren't patients in a psychiatrist's office. We aren't lying on a couch, trying to recall suppressed memories!
It DOESN'T MATTER whether Putin wants to destroy Ukraine's industrial infrastructure, "crush competition," "buffer NATO," "liberate ethnic Russians in eastern provinces of Ukraine," etc.
That is all beside the point. The point is: He is an unlawful aggressor. He has unilaterally launched an unprovoked aggression against a neighbor - in clear violation of established post-war norms and standards of conduct among sovereign nations. He has thus made himself an outcast of the international community. He must not be allowed to "win."
The Soviet Union was historically our adversary, and Putin's actions must be seen as an attempt to renew that role.
Do you think that Russia is “losing” or is going to “lose” the war/invasion/security operation? What do you think Putin will do about the Baltic area, Moldova, Romania etc..?
I will be happy to present my positions on these issues as soon as you clearly state that you feel that Putin deserves to be regarded as an international pariah, that he has acted in a morally despicable / barbaric fashion, that he ought to lose along the whole line, and that Ukraine has done nothing to deserve the invasion.
Can we at least agree that, at the minimum, the optimal solution would be for Russia's forces to immediately vacate Ukraine? I.e., if you, magically, were suddenly in power in the Kremlin, would you not instantly order the withdrawal of all Russian troops from the territory of Ukraine?
I have no interest in debating anyone who would hesitate in replying in the affirmative to that question.
Regards,
oh my!..... hahahahaha
Was it difficult to type that and clutch your pearls at the same time.
Thanks for answering the questions I posed to you.
I had a feeling about you when I read some of your posts.
I'm sorry if you're Ukrainian and are getting a lesson in "realpolitik". My grandfather explained it to me and my cousins when he talked about fighting in a civil war and the Catholic purge that followed..... and why he forced all 8 of my uncles to join the armed forces when they turned 18.....no option or excuses . They could go to college, trade school or anything after but they had to join after they graduated high school.
"All the finest arguments and precise rhetoric lose to a bullet in the face and a boot on your neck".
There is a huge conflagration currently taking place right smack dab in the middle of Eastern Europe, and the fact that that represents a gross violation of the post-WWII norms and standards of behavior among civilized states doesn't seem to register with you.
Welcome to the real world pal.
You should really get out more and read a newspaper or access something other than MSNBC or CNN.....or a faculty lounge.
The "post-WWII norms and standards of behavior"..... you mean like when Russia "pacified" Chechnya and murdered about 100,000 civilians.... or in 1987 when India "pacified" northern Sri Lanka with "only" about 10,000 killed.... or Ethiopia killing about 500,000 "rebels..... or teeny tiny Mozambique killing 3 or 400,000....or the "civilized" European behavior of the Serbs killing about 100,000 Bosnian....... or the Rwandan Hutus butchering 250-300,000 Tutsis....or even the Sudanese Arabs killing about 2,000,000 Sudanese blacks (yeah... MILLION)....
I don't know what planet you live on but on this one , time is divided in two parts... 1. War.... and 2. Preparation for War.
If you don't understand that, then I'm sure there are libraries in your area that could assist you in your intellectual endeavors about the "nature of man".
Spoiler alert!.... there are violent evil men willing to take everything you own or have created through your hard work and skills... and also willing to kill you and your entire family if you resist...... countries are the same way.
warmest regards and respectfully
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