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The mystery of the Moskva and Makarov
Asia Times ^

Posted on 05/07/2022 4:39:16 AM PDT by FarCenter

The Russian cruiser Moskva was attacked in the Black Sea on April 13. There are unconfirmed reports also that the Russian frigate Admiral Makarov was attacked on May 6. As details emerge, four important questions arise:

First, were these vessels, equipped with supposedly excellent air defense systems, caught by surprise and, if so, how did that happen? There is no suggestion, from any source, that Russian sailors attempted to shoot down Ukrainian missiles, or even that they knew they were there before they were hit.

Second, was there anything special about the Ukrainian missiles that made them undetectable?

Third, why didn’t either or both ships respond?

Fourth, what, if any, role did the US play in the attack on both of these ships?

...

Ukrainian officials say that the Moskva was targeted with the help of the United States. The Pentagon officially denies that – as it has denied reports that US overhead systems were targeting Russian generals in the Ukraine war.

What we can say for sure in the case of the Moskva is that there was a P-8A Navy surveillance and anti-submarine-warfare aircraft in the Black Sea in the ship’s vicinity. Is targeting all that the P-8A was doing?

...

Much of what the ALR-55 can do is classified, but it is capable of jamming enemy radars or, possibly, spoofing radars. Therefore, it is theoretically possible that if the US Navy P-8A was connected in real-time or near-real-time to Ukraine’s Neptune operators, it could blank out or spoof the radars on the Russian ships.

There's little doubt that the P-8A was coordinating with the Ukrainians, perhaps directly or through satellite connections, or possibly via handoffs to US and NATO forces and then the Ukrainians. Otherwise, what was it doing shadowing Russian ships in international waters, risking possible confrontation?

(Excerpt) Read more at asiatimes.com ...


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: clownworld
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1 posted on 05/07/2022 4:39:16 AM PDT by FarCenter
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To: FarCenter

I am sure there will be no repercussions from this...

“US Navy P-8A was connected in real-time or near-real-time to Ukraine’s Neptune operators, it could blank out or spoof the radars on the Russian ships.”


2 posted on 05/07/2022 4:41:02 AM PDT by 2banana (Common ground with islamic terrorists-they want to die for allah and we want to arrange the meeting)
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To: 2banana

THE US IS PROVIDING REPERCUSSIONS FOR THOSE WHO AIDED AND ABETTED OUR ENEMIES FOR DECADES. IT’S PAYBACK TIME.


3 posted on 05/07/2022 4:45:31 AM PDT by BiglyCommentary
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To: BiglyCommentary

20 years in Afghanistan and Iraq says you are wrong.

The next American adventure bringing democracy to the world is going to be bloody.

Imagine if the Taliban has stingers and Javilens.

“THE US IS PROVIDING REPERCUSSIONS FOR THOSE WHO AIDED AND ABETTED OUR ENEMIES FOR DECADES. IT’S PAYBACK TIME.”


4 posted on 05/07/2022 4:50:25 AM PDT by 2banana (Common ground with islamic terrorists-they want to die for allah and we want to arrange the meeting)
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To: FarCenter

We really only know three things about the Moskva and the Makarov.
They came
They saw
The sank


5 posted on 05/07/2022 4:53:40 AM PDT by Tupelo (Don't underestimate The Republican Party's ability to f*ck things up)
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To: FarCenter
Second, was there anything special about the Ukrainian missiles that made them undetectable?

Please stupid and incompetent Russians on the Moscva had their radar turned off.

https://news.usni.org/2022/05/05/warship-moskva-was-blind-to-ukrainian-missile-attack-analysis-shows

6 posted on 05/07/2022 4:54:35 AM PDT by tlozo (Trump-the Russian invasion of Ukraine is " truly a crime against humanity")
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To: 2banana

You are ignorant of history. Russia actively helped craft Iranian IED’S that were the leading cause of death and injury to our troops in Iraq.


7 posted on 05/07/2022 4:58:14 AM PDT by BiglyCommentary
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To: FarCenter
"Otherwise, what was it doing shadowing Russian ships in international waters, risking possible confrontation?"

What a bunch of journalistic jackasses.

First, it is international waters. We can do whatever we want as long as we don't impede the navigation or endanger the vessel by getting too close.

Second, they have done this for decades to the US Navy, I have seen it with my own eyes, and we have done it to them.

That said, if we are providing direct support for fire control and guidance of missiles, we should be fully prepared to accept that plane being downed, or a torpedo slammed into the belly of any US ship in the region up to and including one of our aircraft carriers.

People who are all gung-ho for this aren't thinking it through.

And they are the surprised idiots who, when it happens, are totally shocked and unprepared, and that is how major wars are started.

Those kinds of people are mostly, but not exclusively leftists. People who support things like our P-8 providing direct targeting assistance should be fully aware of and willing to accept the consequences, which I am certain 99.9% of them are not, because they haven't thought it through.

This is insanity. Sheer insanity.

8 posted on 05/07/2022 4:59:47 AM PDT by rlmorel (Democrats running things is termite infestation, and the exterminator won't be here for 3 years.)
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To: FarCenter
Ukraine tells many stories, sinking the Admiral Makarov is apparently one of them.


9 posted on 05/07/2022 5:00:46 AM PDT by mac_truck (aide toi et dieu t'aidera )
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To: 2banana

I am not convinced this is the case. If it is, it would be a direct act of war and we better be prepared for the consequences, which we are not.

But the people who are running this country are rash enough to push this true or not, and the media will push it because above all other things, they are Leftist and just love a war as long as they don’t have to bleed.


10 posted on 05/07/2022 5:03:57 AM PDT by rlmorel (Democrats running things is termite infestation, and the exterminator won't be here for 3 years.)
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To: tlozo
Maintenance is a bitch.

Stuff breaks. On older ships like the Moskva, it breaks all the time. And in a kleptocracy like Russia, the spare parts system must be a nightmare. We have the same types of problems on our ships, so we're not perfect either. But the Russia s are likely orders of magnitude worse.

11 posted on 05/07/2022 5:04:50 AM PDT by Bruce Campbells Chin
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To: FarCenter

loose lips start WWIII.


12 posted on 05/07/2022 5:08:37 AM PDT by Sertorius (A hayseed with no Greek and dam^ proud of it)
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To: rlmorel
P-8 providing direct targeting assistance

Carlson said while the U.S. could give Ukrainian forces a general idea of where the ship was, it could not provide necessary tracking information to the Neptunes because P-8s datalinks were incompatible.

“There’s no way the P8 has the ability to send direct data via data link right to the Ukrainians,” he said. “You can’t do it by voice. It’s got to be done through a data link.”

https://news.usni.org/2022/05/05/warship-moskva-was-blind-to-ukrainian-missile-attack-analysis-shows

13 posted on 05/07/2022 5:16:20 AM PDT by tlozo (Trump-the Russian invasion of Ukraine is " truly a crime against humanity")
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To: FarCenter

Somewhat doubtful we would be sending real time targeting data to the Ukrainians. Their guidance equipment and our surveillance equipment are almost certainly not configured to “talk” to each other for obvious COMSEC reasons.


14 posted on 05/07/2022 5:17:12 AM PDT by XRdsRev (Justice for Bernell Trammell, Trump supporter, murdered in 2020)
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To: FarCenter

15 posted on 05/07/2022 5:19:01 AM PDT by E. Pluribus Unum (Your bat-excrement crazy mental illness does not impose an obligation upon me to deny reality.)
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To: FarCenter

The P8 is not compatible with the Ukraine systems


16 posted on 05/07/2022 5:22:01 AM PDT by AppyPappy (Biden told Al Roker "America is back". Unfortunately, he meant back to the 1970's)
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To: 2banana

Therefore, it is theoretically possible that if the US Navy P-8A was connected...

You left out part of the sentence.
theoretically possible VS was


17 posted on 05/07/2022 5:22:06 AM PDT by Farmerbob
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To: BiglyCommentary

Now imagine Iraq and Afghanistan flooded with Javelins, Stingers and high end intel.

The Americans would have been crushed.

“You are ignorant of history. Russia actively helped craft Iranian IED’S that were the leading cause of death and injury to our troops in Iraq.”


18 posted on 05/07/2022 5:22:47 AM PDT by 2banana (Common ground with islamic terrorists-they want to die for allah and we want to arrange the meeting)
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To: FarCenter

The ships were equipped with “excellent defensive systems”. The US Navy places an inordinate faith in defensive systems. Thus far they have not been tested in combat against a technologically competent opponent. Face it. The silicon chip and other technological advances have made the sufface naval combatant obsolete. The bigger the ship, the bigger the target, the bigger the crew, the more deaths.


19 posted on 05/07/2022 5:24:39 AM PDT by allendale
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To: E. Pluribus Unum
This is a war between Democrats and Russia

US senate voted 100 to 0 to revive the Lend-Lease Act to arm Ukraine.

20 posted on 05/07/2022 5:25:21 AM PDT by tlozo (Trump-the Russian invasion of Ukraine is " truly a crime against humanity")
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