The De-NAZIfication Claim by Russia is Factually Wrong -- 300 Historians

DW News DW.com ^ | May 6 2022 | DW News

[Kazan]

The Azovs, you idiot, use swastika as their logo. Who do you think you're fooling?

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/international/world-news/neo-nazis-azov-battalion-is-ukraines-controversial-custodian/articleshow/90692826.cms?from=mdr

Azov Battalion is the most controversial of all the Ukrainian forces – espousing right wing ideology, showcasing Nazi symbols and focussing on white supremacist ideology.

Azov began as a military infantry unit made up of civilian volunteers drawn from far-right, neo-Nazi groups that were active in Ukraine, such as the Patriot of Ukraine gang and the Social National Assembly (SNA). Interestingly, The Washington Post in a recent article referred to right wing Nazi tendencies of Azov battalion.

“Of all the Ukrainian forces fighting the invading Russian military, the most controversial is the Azov Battalion. It is among Ukraine’s most adept military units and has battled Russian forces in key sites, including the besieged city of Mariupol and near the capital, Kyiv. With Russian forces withdrawing from areas north of Kyiv last week and possibly repositioning in southern and eastern Ukraine, which Moscow has declared as its primary focus, the Azov forces could grow in significance,” the Post wrote in a recent article titled ‘Right-wing Azov Battalion emerges as a controversial defender of Ukraine’

“…the battalion’s far-right nationalist ideology has raised concerns that it is attracting extremists, including white supremacist neo-Nazis, who could pose a future threat. When Putin cast his assault on Ukraine as a quest to “de-Nazify” the country, seeking to delegitimize the Ukrainian government and Ukrainian nationalism as fascist, he was partly referring to the Azov forces.”

The Azov battalion has been outed as having neo-Nazi ties since 2014 in the Western media:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/sep/10/azov-far-right-fighters-ukraine-neo-nazis

"I have nothing against Russian nationalists, or a great Russia," said Dmitry, as we sped through the dark Mariupol night in a pickup truck, a machine gunner positioned in the back. "But Putin's not even a Russian. Putin's a Jew."

Dmitry – which he said is not his real name – is a native of east Ukraine and a member of the Azov battalion, a volunteer grouping that has been doing much of the frontline fighting in Ukraine's war with pro-Russia separatists. The Azov, one of many volunteer brigades to fight alongside the Ukrainian army in the east of the country, has developed a reputation for fearlessness in battle.

But there is an increasing worry that while the Azov and other volunteer battalions might be Ukraine's most potent and reliable force on the battlefield against the separatists, they also pose the most serious threat to the Ukrainian government, and perhaps even the state, when the conflict in the east is over. The Azov causes particular concern due to the far right, even neo-Nazi, leanings of many of its members.

Dmitry claimed not to be a Nazi, but waxed lyrical about Adolf Hitler as a military leader, and believes the Holocaust never happened. Not everyone in the Azov battalion thinks like Dmitry, but after speaking with dozens of its fighters and embedding on several missions during the past week in and around the strategic port city of Mariupol, the Guardian found many of them to have disturbing political views, and almost all to be intent on "bringing the fight to Kiev" when the war in the east is over.

The battalion's symbol is reminiscent of the Nazi Wolfsangel, though the battalion claims it is in fact meant to be the letters N and I crossed over each other, standing for "national idea". Many of its members have links with neo-Nazi groups, and even those who laughed off the idea that they are neo-Nazis did not give the most convincing denials.

"Of course not, it's all made up, there are just a lot of people who are interested in Nordic mythology," said one fighter when asked if there were neo-Nazis in the battalion. When asked what his own political views were, however, he said "national socialist". As for the swastika tattoos on at least one man seen at the Azov base, "the swastika has nothing to do with the Nazis, it was an ancient sun symbol," he claimed.

[OneVike]

Even the leftist rag, Salon.com agree that Nazis are fighting for Ukraine, and they worry the Nazis will take control once this war is over. If they are fighting, then they are obviously a major influence in the war. Hell, this Salon article even goes so far as to point out how Zelenksyy was so fearful of the Nazi's that he backed off the support he had for a fringe leftist political group in Eastern Ukraine.

Are there really neo-Nazis fighting for Ukraine? Well, yes — but it's a long story

I think Salon is a joke, but they are sure not friends of Putin right now, and even they admit there are Nazis in Ukraine, and they are fighting against Russia, in the hopes that when the war is over, they will take control of the government.

[CapandBall]

300 or 3,000… who cares; it is a lazy Argumentum ad populum (a.k.a. The Bandwagon Fallacy)

“Why 100? If I were wrong, one would be enough”

[DoughtyOne]

I’m not in support of Russia in all this, but...

Even though I agree with the conclusion of these signatories,
I cannot help but recall the way they have sold Global Warming,
COVID-19, and other things with lists like this.

I don’t trust the Left any farther than I can drop kick them.

I’ll continue to make up my own mind absent the use of
lists like these to convince me one way or the other.

[OneVike]

There are NO NAZI's in Ukraine.

Doesn't it kind of remind one of good of ole Bagdad Bob?

"There are not Americans in Bagdad"

[OneVike]

Need more proof?

[Basket_of_Deplorables]

“50 Former leaders of the IC say the Hunter Biden laptop is Russian disinformation.”

[who_would_fardels_bear]

Looks like a non-denial denial. I don’t think that Russia ever accused the Ukrainians of being a continuation of the German Nazi party, just their own home-grown version, which the historians seem to agree with.

[ganeemead]

One thing all the nazi-wannabes on FR need to understand about Adolf Hitler...

The guy was a goofball and a slave to his own stupid ideology.

He had a baker's dozen ways to win WW2 and only two or three ways to lose it, and he found one of the ways to lose...

Put Ike, Douglas MacArthur, or George Patton in Hitler's place starting from 38 or 39, and Germany wins WW2 easily.

[Kevmo]

That is not an extraordinary proof. The extraordinary claim is invalid.

[Kevmo]

My eyes tell me there isn’t even 300 NAZIs in Ukraine just like there aren’t in the town I live in. And even if there were 300 of them, it would not be a justification for invading the country. It is that justification which is simply flat wrong.

[Kevmo]

Yup. Having a jewish president is no different, because even Hitler had jewish blood according to these guys.

[MalPearce]

The Kremlin has officially dropped denazification from its message because...

Ordinary Russians can’t pronounce it and don’t know what it means.

Wait. What?! After 20 years of propaganda that said Nazis were the bad guys in ww2, then the Chechens, then the Georgians, then the Ukrainians, then the Finns, Poles, and Israelis?

And now they’re so totally confused. No! Surely not!

[Kevmo]

The Azovs, you idiot,
*** Well, going straight for the ad hominem. Reason enough not to read the rest of your post, reason enough not to listen to any bullsnot justification for invading a country.
use swastika as their logo. Who do you think you're fooling? https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/international/world-news/neo-nazis-azov-battalion-is-ukraines-controversial-custodian/articleshow/90692826.cms?from=mdr Azov Battalion is the most controversial of all the Ukrainian forces – espousing right wing ideology, showcasing Nazi symbols and focussing on white supremacist ideology. Azov began as a military infantry unit made up of civilian volunteers drawn from far-right, neo-Nazi groups that were active in Ukraine, such as the Patriot of Ukraine gang and the Social National Assembly (SNA). Interestingly, The Washington Post in a recent article referred to right wing Nazi tendencies of Azov battalion. “Of all the Ukrainian forces fighting the invading Russian military, the most controversial is the Azov Battalion. It is among Ukraine’s most adept military units and has battled Russian forces in key sites, including the besieged city of Mariupol and near the capital, Kyiv. With Russian forces withdrawing from areas north of Kyiv last week and possibly repositioning in southern and eastern Ukraine, which Moscow has declared as its primary focus, the Azov forces could grow in significance,” the Post wrote in a recent article titled ‘Right-wing Azov Battalion emerges as a controversial defender of Ukraine’ “…the battalion’s far-right nationalist ideology has raised concerns that it is attracting extremists, including white supremacist neo-Nazis, who could pose a future threat. When Putin cast his assault on Ukraine as a quest to “de-Nazify” the country, seeking to delegitimize the Ukrainian government and Ukrainian nationalism as fascist, he was partly referring to the Azov forces.” The Azov battalion has been outed as having neo-Nazi ties since 2014 in the Western media: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/sep/10/azov-far-right-fighters-ukraine-neo-nazis "I have nothing against Russian nationalists, or a great Russia," said Dmitry, as we sped through the dark Mariupol night in a pickup truck, a machine gunner positioned in the back. "But Putin's not even a Russian. Putin's a Jew." Dmitry – which he said is not his real name – is a native of east Ukraine and a member of the Azov battalion, a volunteer grouping that has been doing much of the frontline fighting in Ukraine's war with pro-Russia separatists. The Azov, one of many volunteer brigades to fight alongside the Ukrainian army in the east of the country, has developed a reputation for fearlessness in battle. But there is an increasing worry that while the Azov and other volunteer battalions might be Ukraine's most potent and reliable force on the battlefield against the separatists, they also pose the most serious threat to the Ukrainian government, and perhaps even the state, when the conflict in the east is over. The Azov causes particular concern due to the far right, even neo-Nazi, leanings of many of its members. Dmitry claimed not to be a Nazi, but waxed lyrical about Adolf Hitler as a military leader, and believes the Holocaust never happened. Not everyone in the Azov battalion thinks like Dmitry, but after speaking with dozens of its fighters and embedding on several missions during the past week in and around the strategic port city of Mariupol, the Guardian found many of them to have disturbing political views, and almost all to be intent on "bringing the fight to Kiev" when the war in the east is over. The battalion's symbol is reminiscent of the Nazi Wolfsangel, though the battalion claims it is in fact meant to be the letters N and I crossed over each other, standing for "national idea". Many of its members have links with neo-Nazi groups, and even those who laughed off the idea that they are neo-Nazis did not give the most convincing denials. "Of course not, it's all made up, there are just a lot of people who are interested in Nordic mythology," said one fighter when asked if there were neo-Nazis in the battalion. When asked what his own political views were, however, he said "national socialist". As for the swastika tattoos on at least one man seen at the Azov base, "the swastika has nothing to do with the Nazis, it was an ancient sun symbol," he claimed.

[Kevmo]

Even the leftist rag, Salon.com agree that Nazis are fighting for Ukraine,
***That is no reason to invade a country.

and they worry the Nazis will take control once this war is over.
***Look at where you are arguing from: Salon. For God’s sake, just drop all your pretense and admit you are a liberal.

If they are fighting, then they are obviously a major influence in the war.
***It means they are fighting for their country. How is it even a micro-justification for having invaded? It IS NOT. And your liberal prognostications don’t generate it.

Hell, this Salon article
*** I’m kind of done listening to you support a liberal rag on this website.

[NorseViking]

There are 1-2% electing the related parties and about 6-9% of sympathizers. That’s more than 300 people.

[Kevmo]

If you think Salon is a joke then treat it as a joke. I am not gonna listen to any more of this bullsnot.
even goes so far as to point out how Zelenksyy was so fearful of the Nazi's that he backed off the support he had for a fringe leftist political group in Eastern Ukraine. Are there really neo-Nazis fighting for Ukraine? Well, yes — but it's a long story I think Salon is a joke, but they are sure not friends of Putin right now, and even they admit there are Nazis in Ukraine, and they are fighting against Russia, in the hopes that when the war is over, they will take control of the government.

[Kevmo]

Hold on a second. Are you saying that if there were only ONE NAZI in Ukraine it would be justification for invading that country? Because that is the justification for invasion here: DeNAZIfication.

Your bandwagon fallacy no longer applies when that much of a POS bullsnot argument is used as an excuse to invade a whole country. Otherwise, Russia could invade us just because there are 20 NAZIs in Idaho.

[Kevmo]

My mind was made up that “deNAZIfication” was just an excuse for invading, there was no real heft behind it. A list like this is just a means towards showing how full of snot the excuse is.

[Kevmo]

There’s a YUGE difference between saying denazification is no reason to invade a country and saying there are no NAZIs there. Yuge. Straw argument Yuge.