Posted on 04/14/2022 1:07:24 PM PDT by SpeedyInTexas
” So it may be true that everybody was evacuated AND that only fifty or thereabouts were saved.”
And also may be true that only a skeleton crew of 54 was aboard as it was being towed.
Let’s see what Russia looks like in two.
The 3P41 Volna (NATO desig Top Dome) is a "fire control" radar, not a "search" radar. It only comes into play after a target is detected and S-300 missiles are launched. It isn't used to detect incoming missiles.
There are several possibilities for why Moskva didn't intercept the missiles.
Poor radar performance in rough seas vs a sea skimming cruise missile.
Poor/lazy radar operation, decreasing sensitivity to get rid of clutter (again due to rough seas) or just not paying attention.
Hubris of the crew, thinking they couldn't be touched (like USS Stark).
Equipment failure.
They might have attempted and failed. In addition to the S-300s, the Moskva had short range missiles and CIWS systems that operate independently of the Top Dome radar.
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“And Ukraine still thinks they have a prayer of winning.”
Ukraine has more tanks today than at the start of the war. The Poles just gave them 100 modernized T-72 tanks. And rumor has it the Ukes might soon inherit 200-250 M-1 Abrams and another number of LAV’s.
The Ukes have all manner of missiles in abundance.
Russia has had to pull back in a number of places in Ukraine.
Belarus still won’t get into the fight.
Sweden and Finland are joining NATO and causing Putin to have to divert resources from this war to try to intimidate the Finns and the Swedes.
Looks like Russia’s traditional friends in Serbia are siding with the EU and NATO instead of Moscow.
So all told it may still be up in the air if Ukraine will win but one thing for sure is that Russia is losing.
Wow. Just amazing to hear such a thing.
This is truly historic to see such a warship destroyed by what up to now was a minor country with a third rate (but well trained) military.
Ask the Brits about the Exocet anti-ship missiles during the Falkland War.
Sorry, not Mariopol, its in Mikeliev. Look under the V in Mikeliev as you zoom in
Apparently those Russian guys went to the same doubletalk school our own Austin/Millie gobbledeetwins went to. Takes a special percentage of “brass” to just blow smoke immediately instead of either “no comment” or say whatchoo know.
“Yes. He had just married my aunt six months before. She never remarried.”
Just damn.
That happened all too frequently from 1940-1945.
BTW, your uncle appeared to be an upstanding example of English manhood.
Yes, but forty years later I’d expect the Russians to have better defenses than the British had in 1982.
Apparently not.
Remember the USS Cole? We nearly lost it by a rubber duck with a beer cooler full of HE. And no velocity involved. It was saved by a beam in just the right place that buffered the blast.
Two missiles with a few hundred pounds of HE hitting just above the waterline at , oh, say 400 mph, one in the machinery space, and one near the fuel, or under the con., can do the job.
Note they described the ship listing which means there was ineffective watertight bulkheads so down she went.
British? you mean Argentine perhaps.
There was quite a significant storm raging out over the Black Sea last night. I don’t have a precise time for the alleged missile strike and/or explosions, but assuming it to be no later than 00z which was 0300 local time (almost 24h ago now) the winds peaked over Crimea around that time and even on land gusts over 50 mph were reported. The storm was quite intense looking on satellite imagery. It has since moved off to the northern end of the Caspian Sea and the weather after mid-day local time was considerably improved.
I have to ask, what sort of credibility is there in the Russian claim that the ship was being towed to port and sank due to rough seas? First of all, what resources would be that quickly available and on the scene to start towing such a large vessel? And how would that scenario explain the loss of over four hundred lives? Why were those rescued already at sea when the Turks pulled them aboard?
This all sounds like a cover story to make it sound a bit less like direct cause and effect, as in missile strike, explosions, rollover, immediate emergency conditions and ship rapidly sinking.
Not that it really matters, while this is not our fight, the longer this goes on the more dangerous it can become. One miscalculation and we all face a nuclear nightmare. That’s what makes it relevant. I don’t see this war lasting much longer. Forces inside Russian military would surely put an end to this by ousting Putin at some point, they won’t want to continue down this path much longer. The man is clearly not in his right mind. It’s one thing to loathe globalism, that strikes a chord with many, but attacking an independent sovereign nation with that as your main justification is just plain crazy even outside the nuclear aspect, which makes it a whole lot crazier.
I said earlier on this forum that I thought mid-April might be the time where Putin faced hostility from powerful forces within his own country, and might go out of office (if not out of this life altogether). This looks quite possible now any time, and the sooner the better. We can defeat globalism ourselves in much different ways than this.
I was about to type that…and I did not choose wisely. //lol
“I have to ask, what sort of credibility is there in the Russian claim that the ship was being towed to port and sank due to rough seas?”
One would have to believe that the Russians thought it a good plan to tow a flaming warship loaded with missiles into the largest seaport on the Black Sea during gale force winds.
It’s difficult to believe that even the Russians are that stupid.
L
Maybe they felt they had no other choice. Stay and get hit again or try to flee. Having a son that will soon be assigned to a nuke aircraft carrier I’m saddened for all involved.
The Cole got hit by a sizable charge similar to the payload on the Neptune missile. It was saved by good fortune but it was also saved by a well trained damage control crew who took immediate action.
The Moskva I suspect suffered from the Royal Navy syndrome of WW2 where too many watertight doors were open for convenience and safety was an afterthought. Sadly, I doubt the Russians will change anything even if that’s determined to be a contributing factor to the loss of the ship.
After the war is over I imagine Bob Ballard really will get contracted to go look at it and see what happened.
“Maybe they felt they had no other choice.”
Maybe. But to me the idea of towing a burning warship loaded with missiles during a gale force storm into one of the busiest seaports on the Black Sea is just crazy. If that ship exploded en route the secondaries alone could destroy the ship doing the towing.
No sane tug captain would even try.
If it happened in port the damage to the facilities would be tremendous. It might take it out of service entirely. That’s why the whole towing it to port story doesn’t pass the smell test. There’s no way a sane Harbor Master would permit it.
L
I hope they have thought that through to the end.
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