Ukraine's Zelenskiy appeals for support in Grammy video appearance

MSN ^

[Cronos]

Let's look at this "biolabs" fake news

it was the latest of Putin's made-up reasons for invading:

1. He was invading because Ukraine was talking to NATO
2. he was invading because of destroying Nazis (all 900 of the neo-Nazis)
3. he was invading because Ukraine had "biolabs"

Putin is tossing every accusation he can think of and hoping some fools will believe him

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Now, as to these "biolabs",

anything and everything regarding bio and chemical—as well as nuclear—warfare and weapons is constantly examined by the intelligence community and related think tanks and academic institutions. You may think “well, Ukraine is a friend to the West, so maybe people looked the other way? but the thing is, Ukraine’s government has long been in flux: the ruling government changes and politics change, so Ukraine is watched like a hawk regardless. Sure, the West favors Zelensky, but had someone else been elected who leaned towards Moscow that changes the overall calculus with Ukraine. Therefore, Ukraine’s weapons programs are constantly watched. The United States has sent military advisors into Ukraine since the fall of the USSR so they’re adeptly aware of what’s going on there as well. Claims of illicit or concerning weapons development would have come up earlier were such programs as proactive as the Russians now insist.

Also, consider that the story about these “bioweapon labs” has never been “straight”: I believe the narrative began as chemical weapons instead? It’s been a very fluid story, to say the least.

“The Department of Defense confirmed earlier this month that the U.S. has invested $200 million in Ukraine since 2005 to support 46 Ukrainian laboratories and their research into disease threats as part of the Biological Threat Reduction Program, which involves former Soviet Union countries.

However, these labs are owned, operated and managed by Ukraine.”

This is from Newsweek.

They are not secret, they are not “bioweapons labs,”

It is important to separate two concepts that seem conflated here. Laboratories that are designed to create biological agents as military weapons are not the same as a biological laboratory engaged in medical research. Too many people seem to confuse the two.

[Cronos]

Like Nazi Germany, Putin's regime has always predicated it’s illegal invasions with fabrications. So this biolabs or NATO joining or Nazis or protocols etc. propaganda would be standard Putin fabricated casus belli

[Cronos]

And Wardaddy - to your "ethnic Russian" comment

Map: percent ethnic Ukrainians in rural areas, by oblast, 2001 --> from Українська: Частка українців серед сільського населення за переписом 2001 року English: Share of ethnic ukrainians among the rural population of Ukraine, census 2001

Except for the Crimean peninsula, the majority of Ukrainian citizens in every single region reported themselves as ethnic Ukrainians in the 2001 census. Settlement patterns are mixed in many regions, and some urban areas differ from their surrounding rural areas.

Region	Population, 2001 (thousands)	Population, 2001 (percent)	Population, 1989 (percent)	Change (percent)
Ukrainians	37541.7	77.8	72.7	100.3
Russians	8334.1	17.3	22.1	73.4

If you’re curious, compare these maps to the regions occupied by the Russian Federation and Russian-led separatists.

The Crimean peninsula of Ukraine is occupied by the Russian Federation, including the Autonomous Republic of Crimea and the city of Sevastopol. Its area is 27,000 sq. km, or about 4.5 percent of Ukraine’s land area. In the 2001 census the peninsula was home to almost 2.4 million people, 353,000 of them in Sevastopol, or in total 4.9 percent of the country’s population. Crimea lost 3.4 percent of its population between the 2001 Ukrainian census and the 2014 Russian one.


Map: percent ethnic Ukrainians in urban areas, by oblast, 2001

Map: most common ethnicity, by raion, 2001: Ukrainians, Russians, Bulgarians, Hungarians, Moldovans, and Romanians (2001)

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So don't fall for Putin's false stories

[Cronos]

zelensky, the comedian who is reflecting the will of Ukrainian people to fight the invader

And you support Putin, the dictator who is reflecting his own ego to conquer an independent nation.

Why are you supporting Putin?

[Cronos]

caww How can you support Ukraines army raping and killing civilians?

The Ukrainian army is not raping, nor killing civilians. You are projecting what Putin's army is doing

Why are you supporting Putin's invasion?

[Cronos]

caww I wouldn’t lay my life or my families down for a war i’m not equipped to fight....then go around the world begging for other nations to do it for me.

So you would surrender to the invader who wants to wipe your country from the map?

So you are the kind of Chamberlain appeaser? or worse, a Quisling?

[David Chase]

“ I wouldn’t lay my life or my families down for a war i’m not equipped to fight....then go around the world begging for other nations to do it for me.”
————————————————————————————————————————-

Which is exactly what the Founding Fathers did.

It wasn’t until Franklin went to France and solicited their help.

[David Chase]

Cute.

President Reagan was an actor.

He even made a couple of flops.

#WhenConspiraciesControlYourThoughts

[iontheball]

The Ukraine-Russia presentation is taking on all the characteristics of the COVID narrative:
_____________________________________
It is another testament to how easy it is to herd sheep.

[Cronos]

And more on the "Azov" Neo-Nazis

Because of its role in supporting Ukraine- it expanded into a regiment in the National Guard in Winter 2014. It was at this point that the Azov Batallion attempted to distance themselves from the extreme-far right wings in its ranks, as it wanted to appear as more of a military organization than a political group. This culminated in the leadership forces in the far right forming the National Corps political party.

It’s undeniable that paramilitary organisations like the above had acquired some legitimacy in being part of governmental forces. Two politicians of the National Corps including Bilitsky, founder of the Azov, had seats in the Ukrainian parliament (the Rada) until the 2019 snap elections -- they were voted out in 2019

There are other far right political groups like Svobada, the Right sector and Congress of Ukrainian nationalists but they collectively have only 1/450 seats in the Rada and the groups in total only got 2.5% of the popular vote during the 2019 presidential elections.

And remember that the politicians all try to sanitize their platform by omitting any of the more horrific details of their ideologies and talking about nationalism, foreign threats, right to self-defense, xenophobia such that the people who have supported them didn’t necessarily vote because they supporte their ideologies.

Is there a far right presence in Ukraine and support among its population? Sure, but it’s small.

Are there neo-nazi elements in some official military groups. Yes, for eg the Azov Batallion. For them war is an opportunity as it allows them to form well-organized military groups with some sense of legitimacy. They committed several atrocities during the 2014 invasion and foreign scholars and the Freedom House has made remarks on this- but there is no evidence that their activities as of recent are anything like what Russian state media suggest is happening in the Donbas.

Of course there are large causalities - 3500 in 8 years -- among civilians in the past decade but not from targeting civilian establishments or civilians in particular.

These far right groups are not liked by the overwhelmingly majority of the Ukrainian people but are tolerated because they’re willing to fight for and defend Ukraine and its sovereignty. As long as they don’t commit any atrocities, I think the people for the most part seem not to care- they should to avoid the growth of neo-Nazi ideology but their almost complete lack of political influence and the relatively small presence in the military makes them not really a threat.

,b> Russian state media trying to peddle information that neo-Nazi groups have significant political power in parliament, that several atrocities are still being committed in the Donbas by them exclusively or in large proportion are flat out lying. They have no evidence of their political power or such a high scale of extrajudicial killings and war crimes today.

Not to mention the DNR and LNR separatist regions in the Donbas are fascist states with low human rights scores and reports of high numbers of rape, murder and torture.

In fact the minister Avakov who was one of the strong supporting political figures for groups like Azov was dismissed a couple of years ago. The parliament also passed a bill making hate crimes against Jews have established financial punishments and prison sentences on this Feb 19.

It was to be signed by the Ukrainian President- but the bill is probably in limbo now for obvious reasons. There are things we genuinely have to care about such as far-right groups registering as election monitors and further involving themselves in their ‘law and order’ agenda but it hardly is a threat of the scale suggested by Russian state media

This is actually a carefully crafted piece of Russian propaganda that looks ridiculous at face level, then you seem truths entwined in the details and they escalate by giving a very descriptive narrative with hyperbole and omissions about the scale of those activities that causes you to lose sight of the overall picture. You have to research in depth a series of events over a decade to understand the full picture.

It convinces you the more you look into the details but your first impression is right, it is ridiculous. Because de-nazifying a country with 1/450 seats in its parliament held by far right politicians, a couple of legitimized paramilitary organisations expanded into regiments that toned down its political rhetoric and atrocities, and a small presence of neo-nazi supporters, barely even quantifying half a percent, is hardly a valid reason to stage a full invasion of a country and overthrow its government.

It’s simple to just ask Ukrainian people what they believe, especially when they have free access to the Internet, and see that their politics align with their politicians. After all the current president’s new centrist party did win most of the seats in the 2019 snap election, an election which attracted global interest. The separatist regions of the DNR and LNR are totalitarian under the rule of separatists, as shown in the Freedom House report, and do not accept Ukrainian representation anyway so I don’t see the neo-nazis being able to influence them since there are no free elections there.

And all of this still doesn’t refute the main point that you do no attempt to invade a nation and depose its government because of the efforts of a relatively powerless and small group. It’s like burning down a house to get rid of a couple of cobwebs and some spiders.

[Travis McGee]

It's depressing to see how many MAGA conservatives are falling for the latest script from the same globalists who brought us "Russia Collusion," wide open borders, "no jab-no job" and mandatory mRNA injection passports etc.

Green Screen Zelensky is worth tens of millions, hidden in offshore accounts according to the Panama/Pandora Papers. He's just a puppet, reading a script in front of a green screen.

[Travis McGee]

[Fresh Wind]

President Reagan was an actor.

True, but did Reagan ever drop his pants on stage and pretend to play a piano with his penis? Did Reagan ever rip off his shirt and dance on stage in leather pants and high heels, and simulate sex with other guys?

[David Chase]

Reagan wasn’t a comedian.
Not really a stage performer but he was a screen actor.

Zelenskyy’s privates were not shown.

Are you that devastated or something? Clutching pearls?

I thought it was funny.

Zelenskyy was a performer and did various skits with humor.

If that’s the reason you think it’s ok for another Nation to invade, you need help.

Trump was an outsider also.

[FreshPrince]

The lengths of supposed freedom loving Americans go to defend Putin...

I read one freeper here now defending Japans attack on the US!

Seems to me there are freepers here who hate America as much if not more than the libtards...

[FreshPrince]

Yeah Trumps serial “marriages”, womanizing, “grab them by the pussy” was not disqualifying but Zelenskys crude humor, well, thats beyond the pale! Putin should invade!

[Fresh Wind]

I thought it was funny.

What's funny is that you reflexively equate any criticism of Zelensky with worship of Putin.

I do not trust or respect either of them.

[FreshPrince]

Sure, put them as equals....
Zelensky is not the one rampaging thru a sovereign nation.

[David Chase]

You mentioned Putin.

I did not.

[David Chase]

Sure glad no one randomly records me……..good grief, because I talk like a man.

Amazing how all of a sudden the newly formed righteous appear.