Posted on 04/02/2022 10:35:25 AM PDT by CarolinaReaganFan
The withdrawal suggested the possibility of a major turn in the six-week war — the collapse, at least for now, of Russia’s initial attempt to seize Kyiv, the Ukrainian capital, and the end of its hopes for the quick subjugation of the nation.Moscow has described the withdrawal as a tactical move to regroup and reposition its forces for a major push in the Donbas region of eastern Ukraine. While there are early indications that the military is following through on that plan, analysts say it cannot obscure the magnitude of the defeat.
The oil refinery is untouched. Why are you cheering on Putin’s invasion of a sovereign country?
Ukraine wins if it stays independent.
Like the USA in the 1812 war.
It wasn’t just Zelensky desire. The majority of Ukrainians wanted to join NATO, for the same reasons Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania were desperate to join NATO.
Putin is able to dismember any non NATO neighbours.
Of course its mostly about NATO. Look at a map and note Ukraine’s strategic position and how far eastward it protrudes. Parts of Ukraine are only about 350 miles from Moscow. A relatively short flight for a missile, not to mention a very convenient “base” for NATO.
NATO already has expanded to 30 countries, a fact of some concern to Russia and arguably a violation of previous non-expansionary agreements. Imagine China doing something similar to us and increasing our perception of vulnerability. What would our tolerance level be for that kind of perceived threat? We’re already getting very nervous about China.
Not defending Putin, just noting obvious geopolitical and historical realities that shape and influence strategic perspectives.
We have opposite views on the situation but even then, consider that Putin did put his nuclear forces on high alert about a month ago. That’s nothing to scoff at. Anything that increases the chances of error or miscalculation between nuclear armed powers is deeply concerning. (We’ve already had a couple of close calls in the past.) Again, we probably differ on this but Ukraine just isn’t worth risking that kind of catastrophic event IMO. Once the nukes start flying there’s no telling what horrors it might unleash.
You are right and I agree about the reasons. In recent years polls have shown broad popular support in Ukraine for joining NATO.
Not just former USSR. Ukraine has been part of Russia for 200 years. For the 400 years before that, mostly Poland. Except for 3 years around 1919, they have not been a country since the 12th century. That’s reality.
It was a goal since the Orange Revolution. If you’ll recall, it was started by Victor Yuschenko started it as a Ukrainian goal right before he was poisoned and miraculously survived.
Yeah, look at the map. Very little of Russia is bordered by NATO. Hardly none of it in fact. Russia is the biggest country in the world and yet it can’t handle all these little countries? Nonsense. Lithuania, who cut off Russian gas today, doesn’t even have any fighter aircraft.
Look at Russian history. Russia was behaving like it has in Ukraine long before NATO was on the scene.
You’re looking at this from an American perspective. You’ve got realize Russians have a different mentality here. They have a very paternalistic and colonist attitude toward their neighbors. Again, that has zero to do with NATO.
Interestingly, domestic Putinist propaganda rarely mentions NATO. It’s all “we’re fighting nazis in Ukraine.” The NATO stuff is pushed for a western audience that in general has little knowledge of Russian history. It’s an ugly history of robbery, rape and murder of its smaller neighbors. Unsurprisingly, they are resisting Putin’s attacks.
The “reality” is that is not your decision to make. About 40 million Ukrainians would disagree with you. Right now they are busy ejecting an invading horde from their “not a country.”
I am not picking sides. But there’s a historical context that is missing. Ignore context, add a bit of corruption like the Biden Pelosi Kerry and Romney, and an entire people is being betrayed for the global elite and thier dreams of a great reset. You’ll be happy and own nothing.
Just because a people are subjugated does not mean they are not a nation and have no national identity.
I’m not picking a side here, either. One country involved here is Russia and one country, Ukraine, is Not Russia. The invading Russians need to GTFO out of Not Russia and we can go from there.
The US and global elites pushed this. They are playing a game and using the people of Ukraine as pawns. By pushing NATO, they drew Russia into this and have supplied Ukraine with just enough to make the Russians pay, but not enough to destroy thd elites. The people of the US, Ukraine , Russia and western Europe are all pawns in the great reset. There us a bigger game going on than you seem to be aware of. The collape of US world and economic dominance is also part of this great reset and shift of power. We are being played.
You are correct.
Ukrainian view of current Russian invasion:
“Once again, Ukraine is losing its best sons and daughters. Once again, the insidious enemy from Muscovy is destroying the Ukrainian nation. Once again, it seeks to seize the Ukrainian land, mutilate the Ukrainian body, and destroy the Ukrainian soul. This happens again and again on our land. Again we did not call for this war, again it was brought to us and imposed on us: boldly, cruelly, with impudence and sadism, which only the descendants of the Muscovites are capable of. These descendants of monsters do not have a human soul, but only mimic the human body. Instead of light souls, their bodies are populated with demonic entities. They seek to destroy us, to destroy Ukraine, because this is the most important goal of their existence. Their goal is to sow chaos, anger and death, to feed on the suffering of millions of people, which is why they fanatically shout “We can Pavtarit”, and we said And Say - “Never again”.
And this time we must put an end to this absolute zlo, seal this absolute zlo with strong seals forever, so that our grandchildren and their descendants will never suffer from this zlo again. So that the slogan “Never again” becomes an axiom, not a theorem.
Therefore, no peace treaties should put us to sleep, no agreements should weaken our vigilance and should not stop the main goal - zlo should be dispersed, its citadel should be destroyed, its ziggurats-mausoleums should be destroyed and cleansed. All Lenin’s istukans must fall! And the Russian Federation itself (Russia), as a prison of peoples that disfigures souls, must be destroyed and should never be assembled again. Never Again.
And then we will know that Ukraine has ended this war now and forever, and then descendants will be able to live and develop in harmony and will be able to confidently say: “this will never happen again.”
I believe that we will win.
I believe that we will finish the job.
I believe that the descendants will be proud, and the ancestors on the other side of the border will be happy that their grandchildren did not let them down.”
Again, that has zero to do with NATO.
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Look at polls of what Ukrainians think about NATO membership. They show increasingly popular support for joining NATO between 2014-2021. You think Putin doesn’t see this?
I’m glad you noted that very little of Russia is bordered by NATO because that in itself explains some of Russia’s concerns about Ukraine. They are the two largest countries in Europe and share a land border stretching about 1,300 miles. This is twice the length of Russia’s land borders with NATO countries.
You cannot look at these facts and say that Ukraine’s desire for NATO membership is not recognized as a significant threat to Russia. It just makes no sense to ignore obvious geopolitical realities.
the ultimate ambition of nato is to be an alliance that stretches all the way vladivostok. Putin suggested that russia join the nato alliance back in the 90’s. but clinton declined. why? my guess would be that it was a republican who won the cold war. democrats want blood too. especially as they need someone to pay for their crimes.
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