Posted on 04/01/2022 7:08:14 PM PDT by Zhang Fei
The possibility of supplying ex-NATO MiG-29s appears to have been shelved for the time being but, in Juice’s opinion, former Polish Fulcrums would not have been the most useful kit to make up for Ukrainian losses.
“They would help us to provide air patrols for the hunting of strikers, low-altitude targets, and some choppers, but it’s not for air dominance, not for air superiority,” Juice told The War Zone. “These MiGs have almost the same radars, a little bit modernized. The MiG is very capable, it’s a great fighter but the main problem is its missiles, and the Polish use the same missiles as we do. That’s why we need to receive something new, with really capable weapons.”
What Juice would really like to see delivered to Ukraine is a Western fourth-generation fighter, most likely F-16s, but potentially also F-15s or F/A-18s. Unlike the MiGs, or even more Su-27s, jets like these would actually have the chance to establish air superiority, even if only in localized areas.
Juice thinks that provided with a flight of four F-16s, his colleagues could learn to fly the jets within “a few days.” This would be only familiarization flying but getting to grips with using it as a tactical system might only take “a few weeks.” During that time, pilots, ground crew, and radar operators would need to undergo a crash course that focused on entirely new systems like Western navigational aids and the Link 16 data-sharing network. The Ukrainian Air Force, too, has said that its pilots could be trained to operate F-15s or F-16s within two to three weeks.
This is an extremely ambitious timeline, even if cutting some corners, especially bearing in mind the six-plus weeks the U.S. Air Force allocates for just its transition course
(Excerpt) Read more at thedrive.com ...
Nonetheless, Ukrainian pilots are grabbing what information they can get about cockpit layouts for current non-stealth Western fighter/strike aircraft off the internet. Much as even Javelins were off-limits, but Western governments relented, F-16's or F-18's that are currently embargoed may eventually be incorporated into the supply pipeline, especially if the conflict stretches into years.
Ukraine ping
Fairly detailed sitrep about Ukraine’s current aerial capabilities, and an equipment wish list.
Poor analogy about Vietnam. That battlefield was a world away from both of us. This one shares a border with Russia, and another with NATO. There is zero room for some retard to do something that pops into a world war.
And they are studying F-16 cockpits online? LOL, that’s a step above watching Iron Eagle and Top Gun. And a few weeks to become an effective fighter pilot in an F-16, 15 or 18?
This clown isn’t serious.
And anyway, Ukraine sucks. They bribed half of DC. They created and pushed the Trump is a Russian asset lie in 2016. They had a spy in the White House and helped the Impeachment along. They have been a cancer on DC.
They arent likely to get their wish until after this war.
But they are very likely to get it after. Ukraine is likely to get massive military aid no matter where the truce line settles, Nato or no Nato.
“Joe’s way of paying Putin back for the bribes funneled through Burisma without risking impeachment,”
So Putin, bribed Biden, through the Ukrainian national gas company, and Zelinsky is keeping that a secret while Biden is letting him hang out in the wind alone?
The Zelinsky sure is a nice guy! LOL
[And anyway, Ukraine sucks. They bribed half of DC.]
I doubt they’ll get it later. A cease fire condition will include they not become “NATO light” and arm to the teeth again. This whole thing is over that very question, so I doubt that will get accepted.
High resolution videos of actual F-16 cockpits are available online, and mil-sims have very accurate rendering of both switchology and procedures in the cockpit. Actual pilots of current military fighters have noted that they are frighteningly or even dead on accurate.
That said - no, you’re not going to learn to fly an F-16 in combat effectively in a couple weeks, even with something like DCS in a full sim rig. Not happening.
[And they are studying F-16 cockpits online? LOL, that’s a step above watching Iron Eagle and Top Gun. And a few weeks to become an effective fighter pilot in an F-16, 15 or 18?
This clown isn’t serious.]
Ukraine doesn’t have that kind of money. Putin does.
Nope, it’s called a kickback and comes from the money we give them and from the “transit fees” they demand for Russian gas.
And no sparky, Russians were not pushing that lie. That was Steele and Hillary and the Ukes. And anyway, I thought the Russians hacked Hillary’s computer too.
“That said - no, you’re not going to learn to fly an F-16 in combat effectively in a couple weeks, even with something like DCS in a full sim rig. Not happening.”
Not true! The “ghost of kiev” learned to fly every airplane in the world in only one day. With his eyes closed and both hands tied behind his back.
“They are already effective fighter pilots in MiG-29’s. They just need to figure out the flight characteristics of the new planes and the instrumentation.”
Ok, that isn’t even worth wasting time on. In today’s machines, it’s not like trading in your Hurricane for a Spitfire. Get serious. You are in fantasy land now.
And it was Russia (some Russians, really) that bribed half of DC, and Germany and Hungary and half the EU. And bits and pieces of the Caribbean and Latin America. They put piles of money into tax havens and money laundering schemes. Thats why about half of Russian national wealth is held abroad. Thats why a host of Russians poured money into Hilary Clintons “foundation”. Thats why they bought Schroeder and the German SDP. Thats why they paid off half the “greens” in Europe.
Ukraine (some Ukrainians really, and most of them were Ukes fronting for Russians, as Trump pointed out re Burisima) were penny ante players in the corruption game.
Complaining about Ukraine in this regard is like fleeing from a mouse while an elephant is rampaging.
“Ukraine sucks. They bribed half of DC. They created and pushed the Trump is a Russian asset lie in 2016.”
The Ukraine is a battlefield between competing groups. Good ones and bad ones, like anywhere. The side that bribed the Bidens and set up the Trump smear, where pro-Putinists, who wanted to bribe Biden to be on their side, in seizing power in the Ukraine, by cutting them in on the Natural resources booty they would get.
We want good guys running that place, just like would benefit from anti-communists running any country, rather than communists. But the Ukraine is even more important than most, for many reasons, like fuel, food, military capability and location
Yeah, too bad he doesn’t exist. :P Hence the “ghost” part. :P
“That said - no, you’re not going to learn to fly an F-16 in combat effectively in a couple weeks,”
Exactly. Movies have put some crazy ideas into the world.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OmhGrJJjI7E
In reality, it takes 3-6 months to convert a competent pilot from one modern fighter to another, to the point where they are as competent in combat in the new type as they were in the old.
Important? Ukraine isn’t important to me or anyone I know.
It’s a DC swamp and intel and DOD boutique project. Nothing too do with the interests of any American. (except for their mouth firmly clamped on the national US nipple)
I think at this point the Ukrainians are going to be setting cease fire conditions. They cant agree to Russian conditions without cutting their own throats. What, are they going to trust Russian security guarantees disarmed? That is the same as complete surrender.
And they much outnumber the Russians at this point too, who are unlikely to be able to mobilize sufficiently to shift them.
This question will, as usual, also be settled on the field of battle.
I mean, the videos and simulators *could* enable them to basically do ferry pilot duty in a few weeks, as that’s been shown to be possible. Defined as take off, fly straight to destination, land.
Fly in combat in an effective manner, no. Even the mil-sim pilots take months to get combat effective *in the sim* and they get killed a lot in the process, something that you would want to avoid in reality. It took me a couple months to get reasonably combat effective in the OH-6 in one mil-sim, for example.
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