Posted on 03/28/2022 7:43:56 PM PDT by delta7
Ukraine is prepared to discuss adopting a neutral status as part of a peace deal with Russia but such a pact would have to be guaranteed by third parties and put to a referendum, Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy said in remarks aired on Sunday.
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The Ukrainian president also accused the West of cowardice, making an exasperated plea for fighter jets and tanks to help defend his country from Russia's invading troops.
Speaking after US President Joe Biden said in a lacerating speech that Russian President Vladimir Putin could not stay in power – words the White House immediately sought to downplay – Zelenskyy lashed out at the West's "ping-pong about who and how should hand over jets" and other weapons while Russian missile attacks kill and trap civilians.
Ukraine says that to defeat Russia, the West must provide fighter jets and not just missiles and other military equipment. A proposal to transfer Polish planes to Ukraine via the United States was scrapped amid NATO concerns about being drawn into direct fighting.
In his pointed remarks, Zelenskyy accused Western governments of being "afraid to prevent this tragedy. Afraid to simply make a decision."
Another top Ukrainian official, meanwhile, said Russia was trying to split the nation in two, like North and South Korea, while Ukrainian Economy Minister Yulia Svyrydenko said Monday that Russia's war on Ukraine has so far cost the country $564.9 billion in terms of damage to infrastructure, lost economic growth and other factors.
In an online post, she said the fighting had damaged or destroyed 8,000 km (4,970 miles) of roads and 10 million square meters of housing.
Zelenskyy said Russia's invasion had caused the destruction of Russian-speaking cities in Ukraine, with damage worse than the Russian wars in Chechnya.
"Security guarantees and neutrality, non-nuclear status of our state. We are ready to go for it. This is the most important point," Zelenskyy said.
Zelenskyy said Ukraine refused to discuss certain other Russian demands, such as the demilitarization of the country.
Speaking more than a month after Russia invaded Ukraine on Feb. 24, Zelenskyy said no peace deal would be possible without a ceasefire and troop withdrawals.
He ruled out trying to recapture all Russian-held territory by force, saying it would lead to a third world war, and said he wanted to reach a "compromise" over the eastern Donbas region, held by Russian-backed forces since 2014.
Zelenskyy focused on the fate of the eastern port city of Mariupol, under siege for weeks. Once a city of 400,000 people, it has undergone prolonged Russian bombardment.
I've talked to the defenders of Mariupol today. I'm in constant contact with them. Their determination, heroism and firmness are astonishing," Zelenskyy said in a video address, referring to the besieged southern city that has suffered some of the war's greatest deprivations and horrors. "If only those who have been thinking for 31 days on how to hand over dozens of jets and tanks had 1% of their courage."
"All entries and exits from the city of Mariupol are blocked," Zelenskyy added. "The port is mined. A humanitarian catastrophe inside the city is unequivocal, because it is impossible to go there with food, medicine and water," he said.
"I don't even know who the Russian army has ever treated like this," he said, adding that, compared to Russian wars in Chechnya, the volume of destruction "cannot be compared."
Russia has denied targeting civilians in Ukraine. Russia and Ukraine have traded blame for a failure to open humanitarian corridors.
Zelenskyy pushed back against allegations from Moscow that Ukraine had curbed the rights of Russian speakers, saying it was Russia's invasion that wiped Russian-speaking cities "off the face of the earth."
Soros troll.
The strong do what they will and the weak suffer what they must.
Abducted and deported?:) How about escaping from their own army and applying for asylum? The most ridiculous propaganda campaign on my memory.
So, absolutely NOTHING in the Budapest Memorandum, that you're constantly citing, requires the US to provide direct military assistance to Ukraine if they're invaded. Thank you for finally admitting the obvious.
In addition, the language is clear and simple - since Ukraine signed off on it, they either understood that the US had no obligation to provide military support if Russia invaded, or they're all complete morons. Either way, the US is in no way 'backing Ukraine into a corner', by not providing military assistance that Ukraine has always known is NOT AN AMERICAN OBLIGATION.
Then stay the hell out of the middle of it, pantywaist. Yours was essentially a 100% troll maneuver.
Sorry if I hurt your feelings! As noted in my post, I thought you might find the reference in your personal copy of the Budapest Memorandum, right next to the supposed requirement that the US intervene militarily if Ukraine was invaded - and you have now admitted that no such requirement has ever existed. Thanks again for proving my point...
;>)
;>)
Actually you linked Azov to the plane going down. I never quite said that Azov shot it down, and I didn’t mean to imply it, since you’re right, I have no evidence of that.
But I do think it’s more likely that some element of the Ukranian side shot it down, as they had FAR MORE to gain by doing so, including the possibility of Putin being on it as he was about 200 miles from Ukraine at the time, returning from a trip to Africa.
And now we have 3 known cases of the media lying to us about Russia, MAJOR LEAGUE lying (collusion, wikileaks/Hillary, and Hunter’s Laptop). And in NO CASE have they apologized for being wrong, or even quietly tried to retract their stories. So when Russia gets blamed for, literally, anything, I treat it no differently than Israel getting blamed when Palestinians die...TOTAL LIE, unless confirmed by Russia (or Israel, for those cases).
Kevmo is like the rest of the POS neocon brigade polluting FR. They are a complete waste of bandwidth.
So, absolutely NOTHING in the Budapest Memorandum, that you’re constantly citing, requires the US to provide direct military assistance to Ukraine if they’re invaded.
***What does “Assured Security” and “respect of borders” mean to you?
Thank you for finally admitting the obvious.
***If you’re gonna finally admit the obvious that an invasion into a signatory’s territory is a violation of this agreement, then I will admit what you call the obvious here.
In addition, the language is clear and simple
***to a weasel
- since Ukraine signed off on it, they either understood that the US had no obligation to provide military support if Russia invaded,
***To be candid, I do not think the Ukes understood this at all.
or they’re all complete morons.
***They simply got duped. Which means they’ll be looking to build their own nuke capability real soon.
Either way, the US is in no way ‘backing Ukraine into a corner’, by not providing military assistance that Ukraine has always known
***NO. Ukraine has NOT always known this, they just recently learned what a POS America is for giving assurances they have no intention to keep.
is NOT AN AMERICAN OBLIGATION.
***I see plenty of American Obligation in that treaty, just like I see it as a violation of the treaty OBVIOUSLY, wherein an invasion of the country is not “respecting its borders”.
Kevmo: Then stay the hell out of the middle of it, pantywaist. Yours was essentially a 100% troll maneuver.
Galt: Sorry if I hurt your feelings!
***Hurt feelins got nuthin to do with it. You’re simply acting like a troll.
As noted in my post, I thought you might find the reference in your personal copy of the Budapest Memorandum, right next to the supposed requirement that the US intervene militarily if Ukraine was invaded -
***Total troll injection. I should just start treating you like the despicable troll you are.
and you have now admitted
***I have not admitted it, such an admission is conditional to your admission which, since you’re acting like such an @$$#0lic troll, I do not expect.
that no such requirement has ever existed.
***Oh, it exists. Just like it existed in 1938 and pantywaist appeasers like you found ways to abrogate their responsibilities to prevent a world war.
Thanks again for proving my point...
***I will be thanking you for being a troll at some point...
I think Kevmo is a bit more unique - most of the "loose canons" on FR don't post about personally supplying nuclear weapons to foreign countries. My guess is he's some kind of 'volunteer aide' to the FBI (or a different alphabet agency ;>), trying to drum up business on the "vast right-wing conspiracy" front. Obviously, it's also possible he just has too many Fruit Loops in his diet...
;>)
I’m PALEOCON, not neocon. What a POS you are for talkin’ about me without pinging me. Usual course for you jerks.
If I’m a waste of bandwidth then why did you waste the bandwidth? You comment about me but you don’t find any of the posts that the original accusation claims.
You guys truly suck.
It is a proxy war. Really a war between the US and Russia with Ukrainians doing the fighting because Biden never intended to do the fighting or honoring any agreements.
He just needed an excuse for all those sanctions to be lobbed in an effort to create a situation in Russia for unseating Putin. I guess he figured all the McDonalds closing would cause a mass of Russians to make Putin pay./s
Biden and that group of mentally ill clowns that run his circus tent failed in a big way and they don’t even have the decency to push Z to settle in a peace agreement to end this fiasco.
OhioPuttz:Kevmo is like the rest of the POS neocon brigade polluting FR. They are a complete waste of bandwidth.
Galt: I think Kevmo is a bit more unique
***At least you pinged me while talkin’ about me. No doubt so you can continue to troll. What exactly is the point of talkin about a freeper rather than talkin’ about the subject matter? I dunno, but you trolls sure do.
- most of the “loose canons” on FR don’t post about personally supplying nuclear weapons to foreign countries.
***Yup. It’s a good highlight of where we as a country have betrayed these Ukes.
My guess is he’s some kind of ‘volunteer aide’ to the FBI (or a different alphabet agency ;>),
***I suppose it’s easier for you to “guess” rather than just go through my posts. I don’t have to “guess” that you guys are simply wrong and lazy, you demonstrate it.
trying to drum up business on the “vast right-wing conspiracy” front.
***Where is the conspiracy? It is OBVIOUS that Ukraine has been invaded. It doesn’t take a conspiracy to acknowledge the obvious. As far as VRWC, that very phrase was coined by Hillary Clinton when she was convincing herself that there was a conspiracy of right wingers to give her husband blow jobs just so they could discredit him — that it couldn’t just be her husband was a horndog. I see that kind of thinking on your side when idiots say such things similar to “Soros and the globohomo elite are all on the side of Ukraine, so Russia couldn’t possibly have invaded”.
Obviously, it’s also possible he just has too many Fruit Loops in his diet...
***I do think you should add more bran to your diet...
Quote
tell you the enemy is not China and Russia, it’s our own government?
The same government that said you need a jab to keep your job.
Those benevolent governments at the Fed and state levels here,right?
That’s the govt you see as an ally, deep stater?
Nice try
Meaningless.
To commit the united STATES to something like that requires 67 SENATORS who represent and speak on behalf of the STATES who bear the burden of war. They do that by ratifying a TREATY.
Reread the agreement - neither phrase means 'the US shall come to the military defense of Ukraine'. Words have specific meanings, unless you're a Democrat (or apparently 'Kevmo' ;>).
Thank you for finally admitting the obvious. ***If you’re gonna finally admit the obvious that an invasion into a signatory’s territory is a violation of this agreement, then I will admit what you call the obvious here.
Ok, now you're posting a strawman argument - I've never suggested Russia did not violate the agreement. The problem for you is, the memorandum specifies a response to such violations - refer the matter to the UN Security Council. Nowhere does the agreement mention "no-fly zones" or other military action.
In addition, the language is clear and simple ***to a weasel
My, you do have quite the lexicon of insults - let's add "weasel" to "appeasers", "pantywaist panzie appeasers", "pantywaist", "troll", "pantywaist appeaser", "pukes like you", "putinista$$kissing", etc. Perhaps you should consider some sort of anger management assistance.
- since Ukraine signed off on it, they either understood that the US had no obligation to provide military support if Russia invaded, ***To be candid, I do not think the Ukes understood this at all.
Oh, you betcha - they're signing an international agreement, but the poor Ukrainian government had nobody available to read plain English. You're better at making excuses than a Democrat politician.
or they’re all complete morons. ***They simply got duped. Which means they’ll be looking to build their own nuke capability real soon.
The Ukranians "got duped"? Maybe in some alternative universe, where words written on paper magically 'transmogrify' into different words written on paper. In reality, it's simple language, the Ukrainians agreed to it, and the US is under no obligation beyond those specific written terms.
Either way, the US is in no way ‘backing Ukraine into a corner’, by not providing military assistance that Ukraine has always known ***NO. Ukraine has NOT always known this, they just recently learned what a POS America is for giving assurances they have no intention to keep.
More excuses, plus "blame America first" - how nice!
is NOT AN AMERICAN OBLIGATION. ***I see plenty of American Obligation in that treaty, just like I see it as a violation of the treaty OBVIOUSLY, wherein an invasion of the country is not “respecting its borders”.
You may "see" it, but it's not in the written terms you yourself quoted. Simply put, you "see" things that don't exist. You may wish to discuss that issue with someone.
Kevmo: Then stay the hell out of the middle of it, pantywaist. Yours was essentially a 100% troll maneuver. Galt: Sorry if I hurt your feelings! ***Hurt feelins got nuthin to do with it. You’re simply acting like a troll.
I can't believe you're unfamiliar with sarcasm (posts clearly labeled "\sarc")! Apparently you were "seeing" something in my post that was not actually there - just as you "see" obligations in the Budapest Memorandum that are not really there.
As noted in my post, I thought you might find the reference in your personal copy of the Budapest Memorandum, right next to the supposed requirement that the US intervene militarily if Ukraine was invaded - ***Total troll injection. I should just start treating you like the despicable troll you are.
"Troll...troll...troll..." Looks like your list of favorite insults is shorter than I thought.
and you have now admitted ***I have not admitted it, such an admission is conditional to your admission which, since you’re acting like such an @$$#0lic troll, I do not expect.
Oops - spoke too soon. Let's add "$$#0lic" to the Kevmo insult list.
that no such requirement has ever existed. ***Oh, it exists. Just like it existed in 1938 and pantywaist appeasers like you found ways to abrogate their responsibilities to prevent a world war.
And another post winds up with the one-size-fits-all "Crystal Ball" argument - "We need to send in US troops now, and risk nuclear war, because my Crystal Ball tells me WE'RE ALL GONNA DIE if we don't!!!"
Thanks again for proving my point... ***I will be thanking you for being a troll at some point...
Hopefully it doesn't involve sending me one of those suitcase nukes that you apparently know how to build! \sarc
;>)
don’t even have the decency to push Z to settle in a peace agreement to end this fiasco.
***This is an existential war for Ukraine. If they sign a peace agreement & use that intervening time to develop nukes, they will be the ones restoring Ukraine back to its original 1994 sovereign and “respected” borders per the Agreement. But that would be considered an invasion into the split half of Ukraine, Donbansk & Bullshiite.
It is in the Ukes’ interest not to settle for a peace agreement. If the Rukes wanna leave, let them leave. If the Ukes wanna chase them to the Ruke border, let them. But as soon as the Ukes cross into Ruke territory, they incur massive Ruke retaliation.
The best course for Ukraine is a nuke-backed aggressive neutrality, get lost NATO, US, Russia.
Kevmo: If you’re gonna finally admit the obvious that an invasion into a signatory’s territory is a violation of this agreement, then I will admit what you call the obvious here.
Galt: I’ve never suggested Russia did not violate the agreement.
***Now we’re gettin’ somewhere. Russia VIOLATED the agreement, the Ukes HONORED it, and pantywaist appeasers like you are looking for ways to ABROGATE it.
I might comment on whatever else the rest of your trolling bullshiite amounts to, later.
Do you really believe Ukraine is going to manufacture nukes?
Do we want Iran to manufacture nukes? Or Mexico?
As was noted by a Freeper in a previous thread, the United States has apparently already referred the matter to the UN Security Council. By doing so, the US has already fulfilled all requirements of the Budapest Memorandum, as thet relate to the Russian invasion. US military intervention in the Ukraine war is nowhere required by the agreement, and a failure to intervene does not "ABROGATE" its terms.
I might comment on whatever else the rest of your trolling bullshiite amounts to, later.
First, let's add "pantywaist appeasers" and "trolling bullshiite" to the already substantial Kevmo insult list (would you look at that, "pantywaist appeasers" is already there ;>)
I'm sure everyone is waiting with bated breath for your next hand-waving, nonsensical, insult-ridden post...
Kevmo: What does “Assured Security” and “respect of borders” mean to you?
Galt: Reread the agreement - neither phrase means ‘the US shall come to the military defense of Ukraine’.
***Your answer to the question is not to answer the question. Round and round, typical troll maneuvers. You are simply a troll.
Words have specific meanings, unless you’re a Democrat (or apparently ‘Kevmo’ ;>).
***Actions have specific consequences. Since the Russkies have violated this agreement, we can focus on the specific meaning of “respect” of borders and sovereignty. There is a MORAL obligation to do so, but pantywaist puttzes like you would prevent such actions.
Ok, now you’re posting a strawman argument
***This entire discussion between you and me was a straw man to begin with. You interjected on a failed attempt by another freeper to accuse me of sumthin they could not prove by throwin’ in this stuff. You have the thinnest excuses for your p^ssy-level pantywaist appeasement.
- I’ve never suggested Russia did not violate the agreement.
***I covered this on another post. This set of dialog is more of dealing with your trolling and bullshiite, for the most part.
The problem for you is, the memorandum specifies a response to such violations - refer the matter to the UN Security Council.
***It is unfortunate that you choose to take up this interesting side note in the middle of your trolling rather than take it up on the thread where it simply belongs, the thread in my tagline. It’s because you don’t know how to do anything but troll.
Nowhere does the agreement mention “no-fly zones” or other military action.
***It does not mention invasion either. Invasions are kind of the ultimate lack of “respect” for one’s borders and sovereignty. COUNTERING an invasion WOULD be showing “respect” for the borders and sovereignty of that nation in that agreement. Hence, by your trolling and oblique standards, it DOES mention all kinds of military action allowable under those circumstances.
Kevmo: In addition, the language is clear and simple ***to a weasel
Galt: My, you do have quite the lexicon of insults - let’s add “weasel” to “appeasers”, “pantywaist panzie appeasers”, “pantywaist”, “troll”, “pantywaist appeaser”, “pukes like you”, “putinista$$kissing”, etc.
***Why, thank you. I see below that you added @$$#0lic troll so I include it here as all of these titles apply to you. Thanks for helping me catalogue them. Should come in handy.
Perhaps you should consider some sort of anger management assistance.
***Perhaps you should consider better Russian Troll Schools than the one you’re posting from.
Kevmo: To be candid, I do not think the Ukes understood this at all.
Galt: Oh, you betcha - they’re signing an international agreement, but the poor Ukrainian government had nobody available to read plain English.
***Another set of round & round trolling. Yawn.
You’re better at making excuses than a Democrat politician.
***Where’s the excuse? They got duped. Is that an excuse in your book? You’re kind of a real @$$#0/e.
Kevmo: or they’re all complete morons. ***They simply got duped. Which means they’ll be looking to build their own nuke capability real soon.
Galt: The Ukranians “got duped”? Maybe in some alternative universe,
***blah blah blah, notice that you don’t address the big red blinking light on the console: The Ukes will be building nukes.
where words written on paper magically ‘transmogrify’ into different words written on paper. In reality, it’s simple language,
***Bullshiite. Nuke plumes are simple. Invasions are simple. Borders are simple.
the Ukrainians agreed to it,
***the Ukes HONORED it. The Rukes VIOLATED it. And pantywaist appeasing pansies like you are looking to abrogate the simple language of borders and security assurance.
and the US is under no obligation beyond those specific written terms.
***The US is under obligation. Everyone in the world can see it, they just don’t know if Biden has enough balls to do it. That is, unless you consider invasion to be “respecting Ukrainian borders”, like you appear to do.
Either way, the US is in no way ‘backing Ukraine into a corner’,
***Why do you say “either way”? It’s bullshiite. Your conclusion does not follow, there’s no logic to support it, and you’re simply wrong.
Galt:by not providing military assistance that Ukraine has always known
Kevmo:***NO. Ukraine has NOT always known this, they just recently learned what a POS America is for giving assurances they have no intention to keep.
Galt: More excuses,
***What the hell? Are you gonna be saying that bullshiite when tens of millions of Russians and Ukrainians are dead in a nuke conflagration? No, you’ll be running away like the cockroach you are.
plus “blame America first” - how nice!
***No, I blame Ukraine first but America sure does share some of the blame. The Ukes should never have given up their nukes.
Galt:is NOT AN AMERICAN OBLIGATION.
Kevmo:***I see plenty of American Obligation in that treaty, just like I see it as a violation of the treaty OBVIOUSLY, wherein an invasion of the country is not “respecting its borders”.
Galt: You may “see” it, but it’s not in the written terms you yourself quoted.
***Okay, genius, respecting borders is not written into the terms of that agreement. This is a prime piece of bullshiite you have written here, where everyone can see for themselves just by looking up the agreement.
Simply put, you “see” things that don’t exist.
***Below you return to this dog-vomit argument and call it “crystal ball”. And yet you yourself engage in exactly the same crystal balling when you say “send in US troops now, and risk nuclear war”... You’re just a straightforward hypocrite.
You may wish to discuss that issue with someone.
***I agree you may wish to do so because your trolling hypocrisy is sickening.
Kevmo: Then stay the hell out of the middle of it, pantywaist. Yours was essentially a 100% troll maneuver. Galt: Sorry if I hurt your feelings!
Kevmo:***Hurt feelins got nuthin to do with it. You’re simply acting like a troll.
Galt: I can’t believe you’re unfamiliar with sarcasm (posts clearly labeled “\sarc”)!
***Where is the \sarc? Not in the stuff you posted just now. You’re real good at this trolling now-go-fetch game. Eventually it’s not worth responding to trolls like you.
Apparently you were “seeing” something in my post that was not actually there
***Not true. You were simply being a troll and continue to be a troll. You’re a troll.
- just as you “see” obligations in the Budapest Memorandum that are not really there.
***I see the word “respect” and “borders” and then I see Russia INVADING. Clearly those are violations of the memorandum agreement. If pootypoot can get away with an invasion just by calling it a “special military exercise” then we can get away with following the Budapest Agreement and call it “respecting Ukrainian borders”. Direct quotes from signed agreements are usually pretty compelling as evidence of doing the RIGHT THING.
As noted in my post, I thought you might find the reference in your personal copy of the Budapest Memorandum,
***You interjected in an unrelated disagreement where the original freeper couldn’t come up with evidence. This entire interaction with you has been on the basis of you trolling.
right next to the supposed requirement that the US intervene militarily if Ukraine was invaded -
Kevmo:***Total troll injection. I should just start treating you like the despicable troll you are.
Galt: “Troll...troll...troll...” Looks like your list of favorite insults is shorter than I thought.
***Looks like I got you pegged properly. Troll.
Galt: that no such requirement has ever existed.
Kevmo: ***Oh, it exists. Just like it existed in 1938 and pantywaist appeasers like you found ways to abrogate their responsibilities to prevent a world war.
Galt: And another post winds up with the one-size-fits-all “Crystal Ball” argument - “We need to send in US troops now, and risk nuclear war,
***You try here to argue against “crystal balling” but you engage RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE OF IT, in crystal balling. If we keep it CONVENTIONAL it will remain CONVENTIONAL because all of our proxy war interactions with the Russians in the past have remained CONVENTIONAL.
because my Crystal Ball tells me WE’RE ALL GONNA DIE if we don’t!!!”
***Straw argument. Strangely enough, several FReepers from YOUR side have vehemently aggravated the same thing that if the Rukes even sniff a hint of nukes from the Ukes then they’ll turn the place into glass. I see more crystal balling from your side than I do from the other side.
Galt: Thanks again for proving my point...
Kevmo:***I will be thanking you for being a troll at some point...
Galt:Hopefully it doesn’t involve sending me one of those suitcase nukes that you apparently know how to build! \sarc
***Up above you criticize me for not recognizing a clearly posted “/sarc”, and here you post one. But what part is sarcasm, where is it you’re saying the opposite of what you mean? Is it that you’re not hopeful of avoiding a suitcase nuke in your mail? Or is it that you’re just a crappy writer and the /sarc only applies to part of the sentence but not the whole sentence, only applies to “know how to build”? I perceive it’s that you’re just a crappy writer on top of all that trolling bullshiite you throw around.
So now I finally got to the end of your tiresome creed and my assessment is... you aint worth it. You’re just a troll, time to start ignoring you, sending you the blah blah blah treatment. Oh well, TTFN.
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