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Legendary Stalingrad tank division destroyed as Ukraine reclaims key town
Telegraph ^ | March 27, 2022

Posted on 03/27/2022 2:21:25 PM PDT by Renfrew

Russia’s elite 4th Guards forged a fearsome reputation in Second World War battles but have been reduced to smoking wreckage in Trostyanets.

After 25 days under Kremlin control, Trostyanets was once again flying the Ukrainian flag on Sunday.

Footage posted online on Sunday showed Ukraine troops advancing in the Sumy region, with soldiers marching on foot in battle fatigues behind the cover of an armoured vehicle firing at Russian positions.

The firefight ended with a huge explosion after a Ukrainian tank fired at the enemy. In the next scene, about 10 Russian troops, each wearing red armbands, are filmed lying face down in a field or yard with burning homes in the background. The soldiers’ arms are outstretched, as each is searched by their Ukraine captors.

Photographs showed Ukrainian military leaders shaking hands with liberated townsfolk or posing in front of a burnt-out 2S19 Msta self-propelled howitzer.

(Excerpt) Read more at archive.ph ...


TOPICS: Extended News; Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events; Russia
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To: tet68; Renfrew; jimmygrace; butlerweave

I have not seen the Russians using any WWII armored vehicles in any of the photos/film clips I’ve watched for the last 6 weeks. The two photos on this thread are of a 2S19 152mm sp gun, which was introduced in the 1990’s.

The only WWII tank I have seen was a T-34 war monument that the Russians opened fire at as they went through a Ukrainian town.

A key problem with the Russian army is the same as during WWII and the Cold War: the lack of a profession NCO corps. They tried to create one as part of the 2012 “reforms” and failed. And their logistics support is nearly non-existent.


21 posted on 03/27/2022 3:50:53 PM PDT by GreyFriar (Spearhead - 3rd Armored Division 75-78 & 83-87)
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I don’t know why Freepers keep posting news about this war. Nobody here believes anything reported from any source anyway and the thread quickly devolves into dueling “You’re just a Russian/Ukrainian stooge!”


22 posted on 03/27/2022 3:55:31 PM PDT by fidelis (Ecce Crucem Domi/i><p>! Fugite partes adversae! Vicit Leo de tribu Juda, Radix David! Alleluia! )
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To: Renfrew

I was told the following by an old German associate who was in the Kriegsmarine. On the retreat from the Ukraine he was posted to an Sd.Kfz(Sonderkraftfahrzueg 8 ton) 7/1 mit 20mm Flakvierling. An 8 ton semi-track mounting 4 20mm auto cannon. They were stationed on a sunken road running along a ridge to the west of a wide valley with forest on the other side. The road was packed with troops and armour. This was on the edge of the Pripyet Marshes. The valley was 800 yards wide. It was pristine and covered in white snow. At 10AM on the first day thousands of Russian horsemen charged out of the forest. It was over over in 15 minutes, no Russian survivors, men or horses. The valley was red. Two infantry mass wave attacks followed that day. The next day four human wave attacks. Each attack getting progresively weaker. He has no idea how many were killed. He couldn’t believe they would not stop. He says he was never right in the head after this. He was a baker. He only talked about this once. He cried through most of it.


23 posted on 03/27/2022 3:58:54 PM PDT by .44 Special (Taimid Buacharch )
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To: tlozo

I am amazed at how the armored tanks and other equipment are blown apart. They are not a safe place to be.


24 posted on 03/27/2022 4:02:47 PM PDT by minnesota_bound (Need more money to buy gas)
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To: GreyFriar

The OPFOR reports look about the same as the 80s.

Poorly led and poorly fed. Not trained, vodka issues, no leadership or creativity when leaders killed.


25 posted on 03/27/2022 4:10:53 PM PDT by rbmillerjr (Defeating China is impossible without understanding that Russia is our enemy)
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To: Bookshelf

26 posted on 03/27/2022 4:19:52 PM PDT by ProtectOurFreedom (“Sorry, I’m not a biologist.”)
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To: PIF

Why is it not a secure link?

Can you post an image of the alerts that you get?


27 posted on 03/27/2022 4:49:33 PM PDT by NoLibZone (Ruling class noticed our total lack of pushback for how the election & Covid was handled.)
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To: tet68

The freight isn’t as bad as the paperwork——but it would make a heckuva mail box.


28 posted on 03/27/2022 5:12:15 PM PDT by OldWarBaby
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To: minnesota_bound

The T-72 & T-90 tanks have automatic loaders so the ammunition is not separated and compartmented as on the M-1. That accounts for turrets being blown off.


29 posted on 03/27/2022 5:25:31 PM PDT by bravo whiskey (Annie Savoy : The world is made for people who aren't cursed with self awareness. )
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To: GreyFriar
the lack of a profession NCO corps.

Leadership on the front line. Often undervalued.

30 posted on 03/27/2022 5:35:14 PM PDT by nascarnation (Let's Go Brandon!)
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To: butlerweave

How many years did we fight in Vietnam, Afghanistan, and Iraq before turning tail?


31 posted on 03/27/2022 5:42:50 PM PDT by entropy12 (Blockade of Cuba by USA was OK by neocons, but Russia must tolerate NATO weapons on its border!)
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To: Renfrew

Bottom pic is mobile artillery, not a “tank”.


32 posted on 03/27/2022 5:44:16 PM PDT by Rebelbase
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To: fidelis

Because Americans love to get involved in foreign wars.
We still think of ourselves as world policeman.
Except for this is in the way..

https://usdebtclock.org


33 posted on 03/27/2022 5:45:54 PM PDT by entropy12 (Blockade of Cuba by USA was OK by neocons, but Russia must tolerate NATO weapons on its border!)
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To: PIF

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2022/03/27/ukraine-bounced-back-embarrass-russia-recapture-bombarded-cities/


34 posted on 03/27/2022 6:01:47 PM PDT by ScottinVA (Кчерту Путина, Kчерту Россию)
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To: GreyFriar; Renfrew; BenLurkin; BiglyCommentary; SeekAndFind; Meet the New Boss; ...

It is hard to have an effective NCO body when the government is a dictatorship that punishes independent thought and initiative. That is the main effectiveness of our NCOs, in Vietnam the Lieutenants were transferred in and out every year, but it was the NCOs who helped them stay out of trouble. On the other hand with a dedicated enemy and a war being fought for big money contracts on port facilities and other military contracts, failure is likely. Unfortunately, those lessons take longer to be learned, with our dedicated NCOs holding it together. For the Russians in Ukraine it is being learned quickly, and Russian generals are dying because they are needed near the front to make decisions that a competent NCO would be allowed to do by the US army.


35 posted on 03/27/2022 6:04:02 PM PDT by gleeaikin
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To: Renfrew

bookmark


36 posted on 03/27/2022 6:13:11 PM PDT by gitmo (If your theology doesn't become your biography, what good is it?)
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To: .44 Special

I was told the following by an old German associate who was in the Kriegsmarine.
..................................................
Wonder why was this Kriegsmarine sailor was in a unit out in the boonies instead of on a ship?


37 posted on 03/27/2022 6:18:06 PM PDT by fortes fortuna juvat (Stay to the right and be ready to fight.)
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To: fortes fortuna juvat

Maybe because late in the war naval units were being formed as ground troops because much of the Kriegsmarine was confined to port. Similarly their shore establishment was downsized.

I dont know if any naval flak units were in what was left of Army Group Center. I think there were some in AG North.


38 posted on 03/27/2022 6:31:12 PM PDT by buwaya
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To: ETCM; Renfrew
No problem with link on my system as well…. IOS using Brave browser and VPN.

Brave shows 2 items blocked, which is actually pretty low. Most news pages will show about 10-25 items blocked.

39 posted on 03/27/2022 6:57:52 PM PDT by Hootowl99
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To: Qui is
Yeah, I know, go ahead and ridicule me, but after the COVID and vax con job, the stolen election and Hunter’s laptop, I don’t believe anything I am seeing or hearing from the media or our government.

I distinctly remember getting up one morning above two years ago and I thought, “I can no longer believe anything my government says or the news says without solid independent proof.”

It shook me up and saddened me. But that is the nature of the US now.

40 posted on 03/27/2022 7:11:59 PM PDT by gitmo (If your theology doesn't become your biography, what good is it?)
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