Posted on 03/15/2022 4:16:09 AM PDT by McGruff
The Prime Minsters of Poland, Slovenia and the Czech Republic have departed on a train bound for Kyiv to meet with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky and Prime Minister Denys Shmyhal.
The train with the leaders on board departed before 9 a.m. local time, the head of the chancellery of the Prime Minister of Poland, Michal Dworczyk, said Tuesday.
Traveling to the Ukrainian capital is Poland's Mateusz Morawiecki and his deputy Jarosław Kaczyński, Slovenia's Janez Janša and the Czech Republic's Petr Fiala.
The purpose of the visit is "to confirm the unequivocal support of the entire European Union for the sovereignty and independence of Ukraine and to present a broad package of support for the Ukrainian state and society," a government spokesperson said.
(Excerpt) Read more at cnn.com ...
The definition of winning has already been met for the neocons in DC. A $7B General Dynamics deal with Poland for another 350 Abrams. I put the over under GD tank contacts over the next five years at 5000, etc., etc., etc. Who’s going to going pay for it? Did you shave this morning, that guy. So far, at least, we are using proxies and no American boys are bleeding and dying, yet. If you replace Ukraine with Iraq in your reply, you’ll see where this is heading. The crazy thing is, we were much less restrained than Putin when we brutally overran Iraq twice. Our justification for this 20 year reign of terror, 6000 miles away, Saddam’s phantom yellow cake. The Russians are looking at the last domino to fall that puts these former Warsaw Pact victims on its border, ready to kick in the door, 300 miles from Moscow. Who’s more justified in their actions?
The two conditions:
“Ukraine wii remain neutral and not join NATO or the EU”
&
“Accept the autonomy of the eastern provinces”
are the problem in plain sight.
Surely Putin was clever enough to realise that? He’s made a very big mistake and there really is no way to win. Perhaps he should ask to join NATO and the EU and then kill himself?
You’d make a great leader...
Given the poor showing of their armed forces, the Russians would be ill advised to attack them, especially the Polish PM.
Ooh. They’ll present a “broad package”.
Meanwhile, Ukraine is a couple of weeks away from being returned to the stone age.
Zelenskyy will never agree to all those terms, especially no EU membership. They effectively turn Ukraine into a Russian protectorate and leave the phony “republics” as a constant source of provocation.
Who will pay? I read the West currently holds $300 billion in Russian assets.
As far as the economic damage to Russia, much of that will be semi-permanent, as no one will be in a rush to resume commercial ties that can be destroyed immediately by renewed sanctions at any moment.
And Russia is not far behind: they're already running out of sugar. Other effects will be more long lasting like lack of spare parts as sanctions ripple through Russia's economy.
Putin simply grossly miscalculated both the military and economic sides of the equation.
The purpose is most likely to tell Zelensky to get his head out of his zzz and cut a deal with the Russians.
As for Iraq, the US never used the kind of indiscriminate area bombardment the Russians are using.
Perhaps the most important detail: we didn't annex any territory. We didn't even get the oil contracts.
Amazing to see how many here take up the left's talking points in defense of Putin.
Get the hell out of here with that shit, for real
What was back then was back then, times change, and please don’t speak to me like I don’t anything, put simply you are an enabler of Putin, plain and simple. Does not matter one bit, and I will say this once more, Russia has no right over Ukraine and most of the people don’t want Russian Domination, if they did, then they would accept them all over the country and not resist like they are, never I would think in my lifetime I would see a segment of Americans excuse a dictator.
I have to say this, and it pains me to say this on here, but its all fun and games standing up to the China Communist Party, and bombing/regime changing Brown countries, but when it comes time to stand up to Putin, some people here are chickenshit, I wonder why.
F**k Putin.
Agree, follow the money. The military-industrial complex, NATO, DOD, etc. are far better off now. And Ukraine will see a huge aid package from the West after the world. It will feed the corrupt government. The people of Ukraine and Russia are the losers.
So you continue to defend your 20 year search for Saddam’s yellow cake?!? Name one other reason given for total destruction of Iraqi Society. You are spewing garbage about the light touch we used in Fallujah. Your regime doesn’t want ME oil, hell they don’t want Bakken oil. They only want to ensure their Saudi benefactors get the best price for their oil. Your other neocon masters, the arms industry, have just changed location. Those Polish tanks, the first delivery in the new generational arms race you neocons have committed us to. The less you are under Trump’s influence, the more you latent neoconism bubbles to the top. Check out my Tagline. That is an attainable goal for you.
Putin didn’t expect the poor performance of his military, the strength of the Ukrainian resistance, and the declaration of economic war by most of the developed world. Now he is willing to accept the status quo ante bellum in order to have a face-saving exit. Will we allow him to leave?
The EU won’t let him in for many years if not ever. Ukraine can apply like Turkey with similar results. Every member of the EU must approve the entry of a new member. Various criteria must be met for entry. Ukraine is a poor country, which means huge payments by the EU to Ukraine to upgrade their infrastructure, e.g., roads, airports, mass transit, etc.
I was living in Greece when they finally got admitted to the EU. It was a bonanza for them.
We have entered a new Cold War and driven Russia into the arms of China. Russia will become a colony of China supplying food, energy, and raw materials to the Chinese economy.
The EU has that already, with almost 3 million Ukrainians now inside the EU.
The $300 billion in seized Russian assets could provide ample contracts to European firms rebuilding Ukraine.
I have been a Freeper for 20 years religiously giving my quarterly donation to keep this site alive. I am not leaving FR.
What was back then was back then, times change, and please don’t speak to me like I don’t anything, put simply you are an enabler of Putin, plain and simple. Does not matter one bit, and I will say this once more, Russia has no right over Ukraine and most of the people don’t want Russian Domination, if they did, then they would accept them all over the country and not resist like they are, never I would think in my lifetime I would see a segment of Americans excuse a dictator.
What are the US strategic national interests in Ukraine? Are they worth risking a nuclear war? Why don't we react similarly to the sins of the CCP, e.g., Tibet, Hong Kong, Uyghurs? Will we defend Taiwan up to and including war with China?
The ridiculous canard that I am an enabler of Putin is laughable on so many levels. Just because I disagree with you doesn't make me pro-Putin. His invasion of Ukraine is indefensible. But you can't ignore the circumstances that led up to it. The war could have been avoided. It started with NATO expansion.
Our primary objective should be stopping the shooting war as soon as possible. As a Vietnam vet, I remember the apocryphal adage, "We had to destroy the village in order to save it." Ukraine is being destroyed and up to 5 million of its people are now refugees. Instead of sending in more weapons and encouraging Ukrainians to fight to the death, we should be working with Zelensky to accept a diplomatic solution. It is also in our interests to do so as we sink further into the new Cold War.
I have to say this, and it pains me to say this on here, but its all fun and games standing up to the China Communist Party, and bombing/regime changing Brown countries, but when it comes time to stand up to Putin, some people here are chickenshit, I wonder why. F**k Putin.
LOL. We are not standing up to the CCP. Just the opposite. We have become so dependent upon China for what we need as an economy suffering the largest trade deficits in our history with the CCP that we react like supplicants when it comes to the crimes of the CCP.
You chicken hawks have no idea what real war is about. Put your money where your mouth is and go over to Ukraine to fight Putin.
I am risking my account being deleted, but I do not care anymore, I’m done with FR anyways
“. It started with NATO expansion.”
Full stop we don’t expand, people join out of their own free will, and I though “freedom of association” is a good thing well guess not. If Putin didn’t want NATO to grow maybe he should have examined the cause, guess what its Russia and the KGB that still run the place. I deal with people from Eastern Europe, some who grew up doing the communist days, a lot of them friends, one of whom I am romantically dating who comes from Poland and you know who they fear, Russia, you know who has them scared shitless, Russia, not NATO, you know what after he is done with Ukraine and if he manages to take it over do you not think he will not hit elsewhere, and what then, are you still going to say the same damn thing. Also I didnt know supporting the people who which to be FREE from a DICTATOR is being a chickenhawk, I thought it what America is all about, I guess not anymore, oh if that makes a chickenhawk sir, then what the hell are you, A loser piece of shit, that takes the point of a deranged man who sends his baby mama away with great wealth to live away from Russia, wealth he ripped from the Russian people, while young people are being sent to Hell to fight in Ukraine, a war they didnt ask for, who jails even kids for protesting the war in Russia some fine leader.
As long as there are no Archdukes on the train, it should be okay.
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