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Comparison: Real World Cost of Fueling EVs and ICE Vehicles
www.andersoneconomicgroup.com ^ | 10/1/2021 | Patrick L. Anderson, Alston D’Souza,

Posted on 01/03/2022 8:00:39 AM PST by rktman

Summary of Study < Embed > Bottom Line: There is a growing climate change goal to displace internal combustion engine vehicles (ICE, i.e., those running on oil-based gasoline) with ones that are powered by electric batteries (EVs). It is routinely claimed that this will not just reduce greenhouse gas emissions to help fight climate change but will also ultimately be cheaper for the consuming public. The present study thus conducts a rigorous analysis of the real-world costs to fuel both types of vehicles. Importantly, the study examines all categories of costs, including several that are commonly omitted in other EV studies. The primary conclusion here is that EVs can be more expensive to fuel than their ICE counterparts.

(Excerpt) Read more at andersoneconomicgroup.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Culture/Society; Government; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: climageddon; ecowankers; evs
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To: Pollard
Not just when they run out of juice:

<>Recurrent reliability problems: EV drivers face recurring problems at chargers such as breakdowns, software bugs, delays in syncing the mobile application with the charger, charger output being significantly lower than advertised, and outright failures.<>

<>This is in addition to the problem of vehicles blocking (or “icing”) EV charging spots.<>

<>Online forums are full of comments from drivers expressing frustration about these problems. Moreover, our first-hand experience confirms the existence of these problems.<>

61 posted on 01/03/2022 4:44:08 PM PST by Jacquerie (ArticleVBlog.com)
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To: FoxInSocks

“Han never said he could reach light speed.”

How wrong you are my good sir!

“She’ll make point five, past light speed. She may not look like much, but she’s got it where in counts, kid.”

Said Han Solo to Luke and Ben when they first laid eyes on the Millennium Falcon, in docking bay 94, Mos Eisley Space Port, Tatooine.


62 posted on 01/03/2022 7:59:55 PM PST by Jotmo (Whoever said, "The pen is mightier than the sword." has clearly never been stabbed to death.)
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To: FoxInSocks

Also Han Solo

“Go strap yourselves in, I’m gonna make the jump to light speed.”

Said to Luke and Ben in the cockpit of the Millennium Falcon when fleeing from Imperial Star Destroyer above Tatooine.


63 posted on 01/03/2022 8:05:36 PM PST by Jotmo (Whoever said, "The pen is mightier than the sword." has clearly never been stabbed to death.)
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To: qaz123
If you don't want trouble The your generator has to be BIG.

Although people who sell generators push this myth all of the time... a 5000 watt generator is perfectly adequate for a typical household. But go to my second to last paragraph if this seems to contradict what you believe, because it might not.

I speak not from theory but from 30 years of experience and living in an area where the power goes out frequently. We had a larger generator, all it did for us was use a great deal more fuel.

If your load is lopsided even a 7500 watt generator can perform poorly. We can have 2 large wattage loads running at the same time and often do, but you are pushing your luck with a 5000 watt generator if you exceed 2500 watts on one side of your 240v circuit especially if they have high starting loads such as an air compressor.

That said the situation can be similar to when you buy an $18 1/2” impact wrench at Harbor Freight and need to remove lug nuts from wheels that have not been off your 3/4 ton pickup for the last couple of years. It might not be a happy day. The 5000 watt generator that we have been using for the last 30 years was an industrial quality item with an engine rated for industrial use.

If you buy a cheap Chinese generator with a Chinese Honda clone engine it may or may not put out the amount of power that it is rated for. The Chinese are known to exaggerate just about all of their specs. On the plus side Chinese Honda clone engines are typically quieter and more fuel efficient than a similarly sized Briggs & Stratton. But you might need to get the 7500 watt size to actually get 5000 watts of continuous problem free power generation.

I use two multifunction watt meters with built in memory to monitor our output and trouble shoot whatever difficulties that we occasionally have. Without metering you really have no idea what is going on with your generator. You need two to monitor both sides. They are $20 a piece on Amazon and other places. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07JB9B2QL/

64 posted on 01/03/2022 10:07:15 PM PST by fireman15
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To: qaz123
Sorry saw my link to the example watt meter was not working.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07JB9B2QL/

65 posted on 01/03/2022 10:11:27 PM PST by fireman15
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To: fireman15

Question……

If you go to generator power, can you run your entire household, washer-dryer-stove-microwave-hvac-anything else, at the same time as you do when you’re home is on the power grid?


66 posted on 01/04/2022 5:54:46 AM PST by qaz123
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To: AU72

“nuclear, wind, solar. Only the last 3 are carbon free”

Wind and solar are far from carbon free. Their manufacturing is carbon intensive.


67 posted on 01/04/2022 6:09:17 AM PST by CodeToad (Arm up! They Have!)
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To: qaz123
We have natural gas for the stove, clothes dryer, furnace and for powering the generator. The only issue as discussed in my previous comments is that we have to be careful about using too much wattage on one side of the 240 volt output from the generator, and we typically do not use our electric oven because the heating element uses 2100 watts and causes us to have to make compromises about what else we are using.

As far as the economics currently our natural gas costs slightly more than a dollar a therm. A gallon of gas contains 20% more energy than a therm but because natural gas burns more efficiently in our generator we use about the same number of therms as we do gallons of gas. We typically use 8 to 10 therms of natural gas or 8 to 10 gallons of gasoline per day. We pay about 10 cents per kwh so our electricity normally costs us $4 or $5 a day depending largely on the time of the year. When we are running the generator on natural gas our electricity comes to $8 to $10 a day. If we were running the generator on gasoline at the current $3.70 a gallon that would come to $30 to $37 a day.

The only “disadvantage” to natural gas in our case is that it limits our peak load just a bit so if that if we do put just a little too much load on one side of the circuit the generator starts bogging down and things start browning out. If we put too much load on one side of the generator when it is running on gasoline it will usually trip a breaker on the generator before it bogs down.

This is actually more convenient than running outside to reset the breaker on the generator. So for example... if my wife turns on her hair dryer and things start getting wonky she knows to plug it into a different outlet. And the house doesn't go black and yours truly does not have to run outside and reset the breaker on the generator.

We typically end up using the generator several times a year, usually for just a day or two and sometimes for just a few hours. It is a little noisy, but does not keep me awake. Some of our neighbors have systems with electric starters and automatic transfer switches that turn on automatically when the power goes out and back off when the power comes back on.

All of our neighbors have generators. Some of them have really large ones and had to pay a lot of $$$ to get a larger natural gas line to their house. Ours is small enough that the line we already had was perfectly adequate. They complain about how much fuel their generators use but if it wasn't for the noise, they wouldn't even know the power was out.

Of course the most fuel efficient generators are those with an inverter built in but they cost more and add a layer of complexity. But looking it up for my response to you I found that Harbor Freight now has a descent sized inverter generator for a reasonable price. I have to admit that this one is very tempting to me and might be helpful to people who want to run a heat pump or electric oven in addition to their normal load.

https://www.harborfreight.com/generators-engines/generators/8750-watt-inverter-generator-with-co-secure-technology-57480.html

68 posted on 01/04/2022 7:34:38 AM PST by fireman15
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To: qaz123
Oh, and it is very easy to convert pretty much any generator from gasoline to natural gas or propane. It costs between $150 and $400 depending on your engine, who you buy your kit from and how far from the meter you place your generator. If you don't already have a T and valve for your BBQ you will also have to add that as well.

To convert ours I bought a regulator, some hose and fittings and printed a bolt on venturi of my own design on our 3D printer for the carburetor on our generator and use a motorcycle air filter on that. But I am not sure that it was worth the extra effort to save a few bucks.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B092HY581V/

69 posted on 01/04/2022 7:48:31 AM PST by fireman15
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To: fireman15

You’re obviously incapable of answering a simple, Yes or No, question, so....whatever


70 posted on 01/04/2022 8:48:09 AM PST by qaz123
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To: qaz123

OK, Yes, running on a generator causes very little disruption to our life or routine. I apologize, I did not realize this was an argument. I mistakenly assumed that you wanted information and were not trying to make some kind of inane point.


71 posted on 01/04/2022 9:33:28 AM PST by fireman15
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To: qaz123

But, if you want to have the exact same capabilities as the power line coming into your house from a 20kw transformer, then you should buy a 20kw diesel generator set. At $3.75 a gallon your fuel consumption rate and expense will cost you ten times as much as natural gas, but hey you obviously have money to burn.


72 posted on 01/04/2022 9:42:33 AM PST by fireman15
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To: fireman15

Egg-sactly......My original question was about the F150 Lightening. If it could it could power a house, as shown in the commercial and, if so, how long?

Easy Peasy....sorry that was so difficult for you.

But, once again, you fail to answer my simple question...no worries.


73 posted on 01/04/2022 9:44:46 AM PST by qaz123
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To: qaz123

Look at post #72... If you want the same exact capabilities as the 20kw transformer sitting on top of the pole in front of your house, then buy a 20kw diesel generator set. Is that good enough for you? And I told you that the F150 lightning could likely power your house with the same limitations as a portable generator for about a day maybe a little more depending on your usage pattern. If you want a simple yes/no answer to a fairly complicated situation it indicates only that you are an ignorant newbie.


74 posted on 01/04/2022 10:22:12 AM PST by fireman15
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