[Kevmo]

Kevmo: “So we AGREE on this aspect of US unwillingness to defend allies [especially when those allies are hardly even willing to fight for themselves].”

Pres. Trump was big on
***Notice how you just blithely ignore the point I made and start talking about sumthin else. You really are a brojerk.

pushing our allies to contribute more to their own defenses, a
***And did Taiwan declare independence as a result? Nope. But they sure are willing to spill American blood over their internal disputes.

and was more successful at that than any other recent president.
***That and a bowl of cherries might help you to evade further and we can all pretend you somehow made your original point. You’re obfuscating.

Trump also wanted to withdraw from countries like Afghanistan which seem unwilling (after 20 years!!) or unable to defend themselves.
***And yet, even now , you can’t seem to apply this lesson to Taiwan, acting as if luzing our carriers over this ungrateful ally would be tantamount to Pearl Harbor.

Enough is enough.
***that is MY point, not YOUR point. You’re the one pushing to spill American blood over an ally who never declared independence.

Kevmo: “But you turn this around into incredible fkkking ugliness.
You try to make it look like the US luzing military assets in a Taiwan conflict would be like when OUR OWN FRIKKING territory was sneak-attacked.
You are incredibly dense, caused by your @$$#0/e inclination to ignore some obvious points just so you can cause a rift.”

The US does indeed have a long-term legal obligation to help defend Taiwan
***You go ahead and depend on those politicians, sparky. And when we luze tens of thousands of men, we’ll watch you jump up and down to rally around the flag. It is people like you that should be sent in FIRST.

— not the same as, say, Japan or Korea, but also not “nothing”.
***You’re trying to introduce other sets of elements in a Red Herring strategy, a violation of Occham’s Razor. Yet another way to tell that you have lost the argument.

Here is a map of US defense treaty obligations, notice it includes Taiwan:
***Notice how you keep adding these bullshiite elements. Now you’re engaging a circular argument fallacy, trying to argue the point I’ve been making all along. Best of luck relying on the US political leadership for doing the right thing for our allies.

The obvious point you ignore is our historical commitment to Taiwan,
***Frack off. I do NOT ignore this. YOU ignore the stuff I have been saying. We have a historical commitment to FORMOSA, from the time Chang Kai Shek moved his luzing forces onto that island and decided they were the rightful rulers of Taiwan AND China. How is THAT ignoring the historical commitment we have made to our ally?

you’d like to pretend it never happened and we don’t care now what becomes of Taiwanese.
***Again, frack off. YOU ignored my analysis that about 1/3 of the people in Taiwan are Taiwanese. About 1/3 are soyboys, and about 1/3 are ethnic chinese, no more than half of whom are ready to take up arms against the Taiwanese in a 5th column. YOU IGNORE THIS. So frack off.

By the way, what is this “cause a rift” talk?
***You caused a rift by being such an @$$#0/e. Now you’re trying circular reasoning, obfuscation, and other classic fallacies. You are lost.

You’re the one babbling insanely, so any “rift” is coming from you, pal.
***Hold up a mirror, pal. Try to get rid of those logical fallacies you keep using. Take a critical thinking class. Take a writing class. Take a morals class. Then get back to us and we can help clean up the rest of yfour bullshiite.

[BroJoeK]

Kevmo: "***Notice how you just blithely ignore the point I made and start talking about sumthin else.
You really are a brojerk."

No, the truth is you just ignored my answer, which was exactly to your point: you complained our allies don't do enough to defend themselves and I pointed out that President Trump insisted they do more, and was successful!
So your problem with that is what, exactly "jerk".

Kevmo: "***And did Taiwan declare independence as a result? Nope.
But they sure are willing to spill American blood over their internal disputes."

First you fantasize a Taiwanese "Declaration of Independence" and then you go berserk when Taiwanese don't obey your fantasies?
Seriously, pal, you have a problem with reality you need to address -- it's not what you think.

Kevmo: "***That and a bowl of cherries might help you to evade further and we can all pretend you somehow made your original point.
You’re obfuscating."

Nonsense -- your point was our allies don't do enough to defend themselves and my response is that Pres. Trump got them to do much more than they were doing.
So what is your problem with that?

Kevmo: "***And yet, even now , you can’t seem to apply this lesson to Taiwan, acting as if luzing our carriers over this ungrateful ally would be tantamount to Pearl Harbor."

Well... you've certainly been a grateful ally to the Chi-Coms, kowtowing to their every wish & desire.
I hope you are well compensated for such gratefulness.

As for Taiwan, they are arguably the most grateful ally we have -- who else even comes close?
Do you think Israel is a grateful ally?
We send them $billions to be grateful for.
We send Taiwan nothing, zero, nada -- instead they pay us for everything military.
I'd call that gratitude of the highest order.

As for Pearl Harbor, the historical fact is the Japanese would not have attacked our fleet there if President Roosevelt had left it where it had always been -- in California.
The Japanese only began to plan their attack when FDR moved the fleet -- forward deployed it -- closer to Japan, to Hawaii.
Today the US fleets are forward deployed in Japan, Korea, and other bases all around the western Pacific.

If the Chi-Coms attack our fleets, it will be the same as Pearl Harbor.

Kevmo: "***that is MY point, not YOUR point.
You’re the one pushing to spill American blood over an ally who never declared independence."

You're the one going insane over your fantasies of a Taiwanese "Declaration of Independence" -- you need to get over that, it's not reality.
Taiwan is what it is -- they are our friends, our allies, our peaceful trading partners, and they do not deserve naked military aggression from the Chi-Coms.
If we allow Chi-Com success -- especially if relatively cost free -- then they will simply move the point of aggression to some other country, like South Korea.
Retreat will not end well for us.

Kevmo: "***You go ahead and depend on those politicians, sparky.
And when we luze tens of thousands of men, we’ll watch you jump up and down to rally around the flag.
It is people like you that should be sent in FIRST."

Naw... you should go first, kowtow to your Chi-Com masters in Beijing, tell them there are mean SOBs in America who don't want them messing with Taiwan, so they should leave well enough alone.
I think if you kowtowed low enough, kissed enough of their rears and spoke all the right words -- they'd listen to you... sure they would...

Kevmo: "***You’re trying to introduce other sets of elements in a Red Herring strategy, a violation of Occham’s Razor.
Yet another way to tell that you have lost the argument."

But you've made no argument for me to lose -- all you've done is babble nonsense, wet dream fantasies and, in effect: "run away, run away, be very afraid of those Chi-Com bullies".

Kevmo: "***Notice how you keep adding these bullshiite elements.
Now you’re engaging a circular argument fallacy, trying to argue the point I’ve been making all along.
Best of luck relying on the US political leadership for doing the right thing for our allies."

And yet again, you've made no points here, all you've done instead is babble nonsense, your wet-dream fantasies of victorious Chi-Coms, and now, just to put icing on your cake, you admit that defending Taiwan is "doing the right thing for our allies."

Seriously, FRiend, you are very confused & disoriented, you can't tell up from down, left from right or even, right from wrong.
You need to clear your head & start over.

Kevmo: "***Frack off.
I do NOT ignore this.
YOU ignore the stuff I have been saying. We have a historical commitment to FORMOSA, from the time Chang Kai Shek moved his luzing forces onto that island and decided they were the rightful rulers of Taiwan AND China.
How is THAT ignoring the historical commitment we have made to our ally?"

So, now you pretend you recognize our long-term historical commitment to help defend "Formosa"-Taiwan?
And yet you wish us to cut & run in the face of naked Chi-Com aggression?
How does that work inside your brain?

Kevmo: "***Again, frack off.
YOU ignored my analysis that about 1/3 of the people in Taiwan are Taiwanese.
About 1/3 are soyboys, and about 1/3 are ethnic chinese, no more than half of whom are ready to take up arms against the Taiwanese in a 5th column.
YOU IGNORE THIS.
So frack off."

Because those numbers are nothing more than your own insane fantasies.
You have no clue what the real numbers are as to how many Taiwanese will fight to defend their country.
I'm here to tell you that virtually all Taiwanese will fight to defend against naked Chi-Com aggression.
And we will help them.

The result could help bring the end of the Chi-Com rule -- analogous to the old Soviets in Afghanistan.

Kevmo: "***You caused a rift by being such an @$$#0/e.
Now you’re trying circular reasoning, obfuscation, and other classic fallacies.
You are lost."

Now you're just babbling more nonsense -- what "rift"?
Who's "rifting" from whom?
Are you "rifting" from somebody somewhere, and if so, who?

Tell us about this "rift" that has you so concerned.

Kevmo: "***Hold up a mirror, pal.
Try to get rid of those logical fallacies you keep using.
Take a critical thinking class.
Take a writing class.
Take a morals class.
Then get back to us and we can help clean up the rest of yfour bullshiite."

You have no clue what you're talking about, you're just babbling nonsense to make yourself feel good.
You should go kowtow more to your Chi-Com masters, go learn what more they want you to do & say.

Then get back to us.