Posted on 07/06/2021 9:49:22 AM PDT by fishtank
Thanks. May I call it an “illuminating” post?
Some food for thought. Thanks.
Pi is 3 if you round it to the nearest number. How many years passed before fractions were accepted? Fractions were generally accepted in about 1800 BC. Fractions weren't used for about 2000 years after Creation. Is abortion "figuratively" murder in Scripture? Is sodomy sexual sin that is spoken of in Rev 21:8? Using the word "figurative" just means you don't believe God tells the Truth. One of the problems Christianity has today is so called Christians make it up as they go along. Almost any day on FR I can read about "Christians" that now marry sodomites in their churches. Some get mad, some accept it, but God made it perfectly clear what He wants. Is it "figurative" to accept God said marriage is between one man and one woman? Does that rule out other combinations? Arguing with Him is just seen as unbelief.
The Bible is not literal in most passages. And you can’t expect anyone to take an argument seriously that is supported by the publication that you quoted.
But a rounded number is not literally true!
You are rationalizing. That’s why your argument is so easy to counter.
Very important find! Along with the verses you quoted, there was the example of the Transfiguration. Jesus revealed Himself as He really is, covered in light. Jesus gives us a garment of Righteousness to clothe ourselves to come to the wedding. This garment was given to Adam and Eve in the Garden before the Fall. The Hebrew word for light is "Ore". The Hebrew word for "skin" is also "Ore". When Eve sinned, she became naked with no light to cover herself with. God and Adam saw her as naked and in need of a covering. Adam made garments of leaves to cover with. That was the first act of "religion". We can't cover ourselves. Just like Nimrod wanted to get to Heaven without God.
The Bible speaks of Nakedness throughout. Jesus will give us of His garment when we are given our new body. God doesn't need the sun to grow the Garden. God created plants on the third day but the sun and the moon were created on day four.
What part of the Bible do you "observe?" You can't observe what you don't accept.
God bless you for your hunger to learn more of the Word. I have the same hunger.
Um, there is a perspective which supports the 24 hour days. We see the issue from our perspective in an expanding Universe. Perhaps from God’s perspective ar the origin looking toward our day, there have been almost six days of the doubling of the expansion. We are riding the expansion ‘outward’ from the moment The Word spoke into existence the dimensions into which the created mass is distributing. We see our trip as having taken 13 billions years, but from the origin moment perhaps only nearly six 24 hour expansion doublings have occurred. God had Moses write what only God could have seen happening so it is from His perspective. Gerald Schroeder has a couple of excellent videos on the subject,and he is an astrophysicist and devout Jew.
Are you also Seventh Day Adventist like your ‘savior’??
Of course!! :-)
So you are arguing against the literal interpretation of Genesis. We are in agreement.
You don’t observe the Biblical calculation of pi. Why is your faith so weak?
"There are no exceptions to this rule"
Jesus Christ created the world in 6 literal days, then he rested on the 7th day, in commemoration of his creation. We are commanded to do the same in the 4th commandment. It is not a request. (there's plenty of pressure/ridicule from many members on this site not to. No one ever said obeying God would be easy. But, that's just what most "Christians" want, EASY. Follow the crowd down the broad path and wide gate, and see where it leads you).
Matthew 7: 13Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14But small is the gate and narrow the way that leads to life, and only a few find it.…
Either I'm right about Yom, "when it is used with a numeral—day one, day two, first day, second day, etc..." or I'm not. The bible shows that I'm right.
Do you not understand the meaning of “figurative”?
No, I'm what is called a Bible believer. I believe Scripture. A Seventh Day Adventist is a denomination. The Bible says that is the "traditions of men". Jesus wasn't a Seventh Day Adventist, Scripture says He is the Lord God.
Having said all that, Jesus was a Jew. He was born a Jew, observed all the Jewish Laws and culture, He lived as a perfect Jew by observing all the Laws. He died on a cross as the King of the Jews and is now in Heaven as the Lion of Judah. He will come back to rescue the Jews in the Last days and force Sabbath and Tabernacles with an iron rod for those that need convincing.
One thing about Jesus is He never missed a Sabbath or a Feast Day. God thought Sabbath was important enough to put it as Commandment #4 in the Decalogue. When Jesus ascended into Heaven, His church that He began observed every Sabbath. Why Christians only have 9 Commandments I haven't figured out yet. I've searched the Scriptures over and over and can find no instruction to observe Sunday, a pagan day for worshiping the Sun that was changed by a man in the 4th century. There will be a cohort that will believe that a man is god in the Last Days, but he will be a counterfeit.
Some have used the Scripture in Acts 20:7 to "prove" the first church moved the Sabbath to Sunday, but due to a translation error, and no education on Jewish things, they get it wrong. The Scripture doesn't actually say "The first day of the week". The word "day" is in italics so it was added by translators thinking it would clarify the verse. The actual Greek verbiage says " the first Sabbaton" A Sabbaton is a group of Sabbaths probably speaking of the Sabbaths after First Fruits and the day spoken of would be the first Sabbath of the 7 Sabbaths after First Fruits.
There is no reference for the Apostles ever meeting on Sunday to worship as that would defy God's Commandments.
In Leviticus 23 speaking of the Feasts of the Lord, God told His people that He wants us to observe these days because these are the days He would do something to reveal Himself and we should "watch" on these days. The very first one is the Sabbath. The Sabbath is a prophetic day in the future meaning "rest". When you read in English "Rest", the underlying word could be "sabbath". We desire to go into God's "rest". When the 6000 years of Creation is completed, God will return to earth for 1000 years of "rest" for His people. We will receive complete provision from our Father. Scripture says that the Sabbath is a MARK on us as His people. If you don't keep His Sabbath, are you His people? The Commandments say "do not murder", "do not commit adultery", "do not steal", but most today say the 4th Commandment doesn't apply to me. Scripture is very clear and Jesus was very clear if you adhere to WWJD, He kept the Sabbath.
I'm just a believer that tries to follow what my Lord instructed His people to do. I'm non denominational because all I've seen so far don't follow Scripture. Just like what we've seen in this thread, I believe the earth and everything in it was created in 6 days and others fight and squirm trying to make Scripture seem more vague and harder to understand. If you want to scratch the scab off here, bring up speaking in tongues. Even though all of the followers of Jesus spoke in tongues, the denominations will bear their claws and go for the throat here. 6 day Creation is easy compared to other topics. If there is something you don't understand, there is a logical answer somewhere in Scripture. The problems arise when we find it in Scripture and then choose not to follow what God has shown you.
Yes, I do. However, the creation account is not figurative. It’s literal.
I found the below article and it does a very good job of defining “yom.” I have no idea of the authorship/denomination. But, it’s correct in the usage of YOM and the creation account.
https://understandtheword.com/yom-and-the-creation-account-of-genesis-1-to-genesis-2
Semantic meanings of the Hebrew word “‘yôm”
1: Day as opposed to Night – (Genesis 1:5)
FACT: Outside of Genesis 1 “yôm” is used with “night” 53 times. Every time it means an ordinary day.
EXAMPLE: Jeremiah 33:19-21 which says “19 And the word of Jehovah came further to Jeremiah, saying: 20 “This is what Jehovah has said, ‘If YOU people could break my covenant of the day and my covenant of the night, even in order for day and night not to occur in their time, 21 likewise could my own covenant be broken with David my servant so that he should not come to have a son ruling as king upon his throne; also with the Levites, the priests, my ministers.” This is clearly understood to be using ‘day’ as daylight hours as opposed to the hours of the darkness of night.
FOOD For THOUGHT: Why should Genesis 1 be an exception to the rule and on what basis?
2: Day as a division of time – (Genesis 30:36, Exodus 3:18)
Evening and Morning
FACT: Outside of Genesis 1 “yôm” is used with “evening” or “morning” 23 times. Every time the text refers to an ordinary day.
FACT: In Genesis 1 each of the 6 creative days is mentioned with “evening” and “morning”
FACT: Outside of Genesis 1 “evening” and “morning” appear in association together but without “yôm” a total of 38 times. Every occurrence refers to an ordinary day.
FOOD For THOUGHT: Why should Genesis 1 be an exception to the rule and on what basis?
With a number
FACT: Outside of Genesis 1 the Hebrew text uses “yôm” with a number 359 times. Every time it means an ordinary day.
FACT: In Genesis 1 each of the six creative days has a number with “yôm”, as does the seventh day.
FOOD For THOUGHT: Why should Genesis 1 be an exception to the rule and on what basis?
Multiple Days (Plural of “yôm” – “yamim”)
In Genesis 1:14 as multiple ordinary days as a division of time.
In Exodus 31:12 – “6 days may work be done, but the seventh is the sabbath of rest”
With qualification of such words as “labor” for working day (Exodus 20:9)
A day’s journey (Numbers 11:31)
N’th day of the month (Genesis 7:11)
3: Days (plural – “yamim”) as an indefinite period of time (Genesis 27:44, Genesis 29:20)
“Some days, a few days”
“these days or these years”
4: Day of Jehovah – chiefly as the time of God coming in judgment (Amos 5:18)
“for the Day of Jehovah is at hand” (Zephaniah 1:7)
5: Days as in the life or age of someone (Genesis 6:3, Deuteronomy 22:19)
“his [man’s] days shall be [limited to] 120 years” (Genesis 6:3).
“All his days” – all his remaining lifetime (Deuteronomy 22:19).
6: Day to indicate an indeterminate but limited time period such as “the day of the harvest” (Proverbs 25:13, Genesis 30:14, Joshua 3:15)
Genesis 35:3 says “and let us rise and go up to Bethʹel. And there I shall make an altar to the [true] God who answered me in the day of my distress in that he proved to be with me in the way that I have gone.” This example has ‘be.yowm’ translated ‘in the day’ which is a Hebrew idiom, and means ‘when’ as in ‘when I had distress’.
7: Day used to compare a long period of time with a short period of time.
Psalm 90:4 qualifies “yôm” or “day” saying “For a thousand years in your sight are like the day before (yesterday) when it is past and like a watch in the night” (BibleHub Westminster Leningrad Codex Hebrew text). 6
This clearly is a comparison, saying that although it might be a thousand years for man (a very long time), in God’s view the time passes like yesterday is in our memory when it has gone by (it always seems very short), and like a watch in the night (4 hours in Bible times, see Lamentations 2:19, Jude 7:19, Exodus 14:24), again a short time.7
More from the article.... It is a very descriptive read and seems conclusive that the creation days in Genesis were literal 24 hour days.
Moses wrote the account with the following construction:
He used the Hebrew word “yôm” 10 for “day”.
He combined yôm with numbers to make “first day”, “second day”, “third day”, etc. up to “seventh day”.
When he first used this combination of numbers with yôm in Genesis 1:5 he also used the words “evening and morning” with this first usage of yôm thereby defining the meaning intended to be understood by the word yôm.
This pattern was repeated for days 2-6 in Genesis 1:8,13,19,23,31.
Only on the seventh day was “evening and morning” omitted (Genesis 2:2). Does this mean the 7th day was a different length, and if not, then why the omission of “evening and morning”? The earlier creation days had a number of events that occurred on each day. The “evening and morning” confirmed this passage of time. As God was resting on the 7th day, rather than creating, there was therefore no need to indicate the passage of time and work. The whole day was a day of rest.
The truth is, they are unbelievers and call God a liar.
If we could have a calm discussion, maybe there could be some revelation here. I've been a Bible teacher at church and at my home for 25 years. I taught Genesis a year or so ago that went 57 weeks. You would think I would have accidentally learned something about the Hebrew meanings and what the Rabbi's taught. I've already read enough from you that I would gladly set under your teaching due to your cogent posts. Most here however have no use to learn anything about God.
A short quiz,.......What was Barabbas's first name and why was important that he have that name? You might know but the others here will have no clue.
You’re rationalizing. It’s figurative.
But I respect your faith.
Just don’t try to support it with creation “science”.
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