Posted on 12/22/2020 2:50:23 PM PST by rxsid
Might as well fight."
This is a good point, often overlooked by many here.
There was something inserted into the Relief bill about the Insurrection Act
I havent bothered to delve into it but others might be interested
No one should be pushing invocation of the insurrection act in this election
See post 45. US Code on reading of Electoral Votes very clearly states that Pence has NO POWER to disregard votes, or choose alternate votes. Only the House AND Senate, acting in agreement can do that - and only IF there are 2 certified slates of Electors from a particular state. And, face it, the House and Senate will NEVER agree, even IF there were 2 certified slates which is highly unlikely to begin with.
I can’t fathom why this nonsense of Pence single handedly pulling some 11th hour miracle save continues to be posted. It wasn’t possible the first time it was posted, and it continues to not be possible the 100+th time it’s been posted.
Or maybe you are not spotting the lawyers
At a MINIMUM, I see at least one on this thread, IMO.
The game right now is for Pence to count a Trump slate of electors or a decertified empty slate from the AZ, GA and one other legislatures.
I don't think there will be any other realistic option.
Current precedent is that the Supreme Court would not have standing to decide the issue. It’s inherently a “political question,” since the 12th Amendment gives plenary, final authority to Pence to count the Electoral votes, and gives Congress the sole power to object to Pence’s count (and defines the only way such an objection can be handled, which does not involve going to court.)
See Nixon v. United States, 1993.
Current precedent is that the Supreme Court would not have standing to decide the issue. It’s inherently a “political question,” since the 12th Amendment gives plenary, final authority to Pence to count the Electoral votes, and gives Congress the sole power to object to Pence’s count (and defines the only way such an objection can be handled, which does not involve going to court.)
See Nixon v. United States, 1993.
No one should be pushing invocation of the insurrection act in this election
————————————
Really. God forbid somebody does something constitutionally legal in defense of our country. Better to have Biden.
/s
Someone posted the US law on this yesterday and it was crystal clear on what the process is.
ONLY the House AND Senate, if they both agree (which will obviously never, ever happen), after written objection of at least 1 Senator and 1 Congressman, can “overturn” a slate of certified electors for a state and choose an alternate slate of electors.
Repeat: Pence does NOT have the power to discard votes or “choose” alternate electors, UNLESS there are two different sets of electors CERTIFIED by a particular state. And to date, we have precisely zero of those - and will likely still have zero of those on 1/6.
That’s not giving up or being a downer - that’s simply reality."
I don't know who you saw that posted that, but I can say that I'VE posted that very fact....probably...half dozen times or more.
The question here isn't what elector votes Pence "overturn's"....the question is, WHICH of the conflicting votes does he count?
Does he count neither?
Does he count both? That seems illegal on it's face.
Does he count the original (biden) vote?
Does he count the newest, updated (Trump) vote?
There is this from an admitted lawyer (as opposed to those that never tell)
According to Title 3 sec 5-6 of the electoral college act. The burden of proof then, that there was no fraud, is up to the Biden campaign.
The one loophole that I see in 3 U.S.C. § 6 is that “the executive of each State” is required, to not only certify the electors, but to also include “any final determination in a State in the manner provided for by law of a controversy or contest concerning the appointment of all or any of the electors of such State... as soon as practicable after such determination”. Courts that have refused to adjudicate disputes through opinions of standing, laches, mootness, etc., have never made a final determination of the disputes. If this is not done, then the Safe Harbor provision of 3 U.S.C. § 5 does not apply to the slate certified by the state’s governor. VPOTUS might then refuse to count disputed electoral votes, in which case Congress may not be able to review his decision, or it would require both houses to overturn VPOTUS’s decision. That leads to a potential contingent election for POTUS in the House.
6,059 posted on 12/21/2020, 6:17:03 PM by Dr. Franklin (”A republic, if you can keep it.”)
Doubtful this will happen. The Constitution already has a process in place for challenging and removing electors, and it doesn’t involve the vice president.
Hopium is one hell of a drug.
For comparison
Also look up US v Throckmorton 1878
The SCOTUS ruled in a landmark case UNITED STATES v. THROCKMORTON (98 US 61 – Supreme Court 1878) that “fraud vitiates everything”.[1]
I’d recommend reading the relevant US code at post #45..Pence can ONLY count electors certified and submitted by each state.
There simply are no “competing” certified electors for any state at the moment - unless one or more states grows some cajones and submits two slates before 1/6.
So, to your questions..he has no choice, per the US Code. There is only 1 slate per state to count. There are no conflicts.
Per the Constitution he would count the electors that had been certified by the state legislatures.
Constitutionally Pence cannot accept fraudulent tallies. He must send them back to the states.
In 1960 HI EV were not counted the Hayes case explains a lot. I posted one of many stories about how it was dealt with
Also
The SCOTUS ruled in a landmark case UNITED STATES v. THROCKMORTON (98 US 61 – Supreme Court 1878) that “fraud vitiates everything”.[1]
Interesting perspective..but even under that admittedly generous/optimistic interpretation, I simply don’t see Pence even TRYING to do anything other than accepting the certified votes.
I still believe based on my own reading of the USC (although I’m admittedly not a lawyer) that he simply has no choice.
Others should read the relevant US Code posted at #45 and draw their own conclusions - but it seems pretty crystal clear and unambiguous to me..
I hope Trump has a better plan than to trust Republicans in Congress.
Ten million people gathered in Washington DC to support Trump will have zero effect on the democrats. They don’t care. They would machine gun them all if they thought they would get away with it.
I am standing strong and fighting in the natural and supernatural!!
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.