Posted on 11/24/2020 8:52:56 AM PST by knarf
I broke it down for ME to more easily digest, but if you click the link, you can read for yourself how well our Founders knew the English language and how to write it.
Amendment XII
The Electors shall meet in their respective states and vote by ballot for President and Vice-President, one of whom, at least, shall not be an inhabitant of the same state with themselves; they shall name in their ballots the person voted for as President, and in distinct ballots the person voted for as Vice-President, and they shall make distinct lists of all persons voted for as President, and of all persons voted for as Vice-President, and of the number of votes for each, which lists they shall sign and certify, and transmit sealed to the seat of the government of the United States, directed to the President of the Senate;-The President of the Senate shall, in the presence of the Senate and House of Representatives, open all the certificates and the votes shall then be counted;-The person having the greatest Number of votes for President, shall be the President, if such number be a majority of the whole number of Electors appointed; and if no person have such majority, then from the persons having the highest numbers not exceeding three on the list of those voted for as President, the House of Representatives shall choose immediately, by ballot, the President.
But in choosing the President, the votes shall be taken by states, the representation from each state having one vote; a quorum for this purpose shall consist of a member or members from two-thirds of the states, and a majority of all the states shall be necessary to a choice.
And if the House of Representatives shall not choose a President whenever the right of choice shall devolve upon them, before the fourth day of March next following, then the Vice-President shall act as President, as in the case of the death or other constitutional disability of the President- The person having the greatest number of votes as Vice-President, shall be the Vice-President, if such number be a majority of the whole number of Electors appointed, and if no person have a majority, then from the two highest numbers on the list, the Senate shall choose the Vice-President; a quorum for the purpose shall consist of two-thirds of the whole number of Senators, and a majority of the whole number shall be necessary to a choice. But no person constitutionally ineligible to the office of President shall be eligible to that of Vice-President of the United States.
This is the article cited for the House vote for victory for Trump.
An interesting word seems to be missing. “Citizens” or “voters”. Did the FFs mean for the word “Electors” to mean Joe Sixpack and Suzy Homemaker?
“Electors” in the 12th Amendment means members of the Electoral College.
Article. II.
Section. 1.
Clause 1: The executive Power shall be vested in a President of the United States of America. He shall hold his Office during the Term of four Years, and, together with the Vice President, chosen for the same Term, be elected, as follows
Clause 2: Each State shall appoint, in such Manner as the Legislature thereof may direct, a Number of Electors, equal to the whole Number of Senators and Representatives to which the State may be entitled in the Congress: but no Senator or Representative, or Person holding an Office of Trust or Profit under the United States, shall be appointed an Elector.
Clause 3: The Electors shall meet in their respective States, and vote by Ballot for two Persons, of whom one at least shall not be an Inhabitant of the same State with themselves. And they shall make a List of all the Persons voted for, and of the Number of Votes for each; which List they shall sign and certify, and transmit sealed to the Seat of the Government of the United States, directed to the President of the Senate. The President of the Senate shall, in the Presence of the Senate and House of Representatives, open all the Certificates, and the Votes shall then be counted. The Person having the greatest Number of Votes shall be the President, if such Number be a Majority of the whole Number of Electors appointed; and if there be more than one who have such Majority, and have an equal Number of Votes, then the House of Representatives shall immediately chuse by Ballot one of them for President; and if no Person have a Majority, then from the five highest on the List the said House shall in like Manner chuse the President. But in chusing the President, the Votes shall be taken by States, the Representation from each State having one Vote; A quorum for this Purpose shall consist of a Member or Members from two thirds of the States, and a Majority of all the States shall be necessary to a Choice. In every Case, after the Choice of the President, the Person having the greatest Number of Votes of the Electors shall be the Vice President. But if there should remain two or more who have equal Votes, the Senate shall chuse from them by Ballot the Vice President. (See Note 8)
Clause 4: The Congress may determine the Time of chusing the Electors, and the Day on which they shall give their Votes; which Day shall be the same throughout the United States.
Clause 5: No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States.
Clause 6: In Case of the Removal of the President from Office, or of his Death, Resignation, or Inability to discharge the Powers and Duties of the said Office, (See Note 9) the Same shall devolve on the VicePresident, and the Congress may by Law provide for the Case of Removal, Death, Resignation or Inability, both of the President and Vice President, declaring what Officer shall then act as President, and such Officer shall act accordingly, until the Disability be removed, or a President shall be elected.
Clause 7: The President shall, at stated Times, receive for his Services, a Compensation, which shall neither be encreased nor diminished during the Period for which he shall have been elected, and he shall not receive within that Period any other Emolument from the United States, or any of them.
Clause 8: Before he enter on the Execution of his Office, he shall take the following Oath or Affirmation:—”I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my Ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States.”
An interesting word seems to be missing. “Citizens” or “voters”. Did the FFs mean for the word “Electors” to mean Joe Sixpack and Suzy Homemaker?
Definitely not. Te FFs referred to the delegates to the Electoral College as the Electors. In the early presidential elections, there was no popular vote. The Electors were selected by the State legislatures. Even today, it is up to the State legislature whether a popular vote will be held. There is not, and never has been, any individual right to vote in a presidential election.
Bush v. Gore, 531 U.S. 98, 104 (2000)
The individual citizen has no federal constitutional right to vote for electors for the President of the United States unless and until the state legislature chooses a statewide election as the means to implement its power to appoint members of the Electoral College. U.S. Const., Art. II, §1. This is the source for the statement in McPherson v. Blacker, 146 U.S. 1 , 35 (1892), that the State legislature’s power to select the manner for appointing electors is plenary; it may, if it so chooses, select the electors itself, which indeed was the manner used by State legislatures in several States for many years after the Framing of our Constitution. Id., at 28—33. History has now favored the voter, and in each of the several States the citizens themselves vote for Presidential electors. When the state legislature vests the right to vote for President in its people, the right to vote as the legislature has prescribed is fundamental; and one source of its fundamental nature lies in the equal weight accorded to each vote and the equal dignity owed to each voter. The State, of course, after granting the franchise in the special context of Article II, can take back the power to appoint electors. See id., at 35 (“[T]here is no doubt of the right of the legislature to resume the power at any time, for it can neither be taken away nor abdicated”) (quoting S. Rep. No. 395, 43d Cong., 1st Sess.).
Thank you. I thought as much. Where do voters come in? I assume it’s in the section that gives States the right (or power or ability or whatever word you want to use) to decide how they want their Elector(s) to cast their ballots.
But only if neither candidate gains a majority of the Electoral Votes. Unless something changes in the courts it doesn't look like that will be the case.
Citizens actually vote for electors. Electors then determine the outcome.
The voters do not necessarily come into it at all.
According to the Constitution,
“Each State shall appoint, in such Manner as the Legislature thereof may direct, a Number of Electors, equal to the whole Number of Senators and Representatives to which the State may be entitled in the Congress”
The state legislatures are under no obligation to let their residents vote for President and Vice President.
No they aren't. But currently all 50 states have laws in place that allow the voters to select the slate of electors. Changing the law after the electors have been chosen would lead to legal challenges that I don't think the legislatures can win.
No they aren't. But currently all 50 states have laws in place that allow the voters to select the slate of electors. Changing the law after the electors have been chosen would lead to legal challenges that I don't think the legislatures can win.
I wanted others' opinions besides FB types.
I've been here long enough to hold FReepers in very high regard
That is correct.
BUT
It's a legitimate Constitutional issue that, when a State Legislature has BY LAW designated a statewide popular vote as the means by which its authority to appoint Electors is to be carried out, if they can after the fact take the authority back.
The question I was answering was “Where do the voters come in” in reference to the 12th Amendment and the Constitution.
Obviously state laws matter. But it does not come into the Constitution.
Electoral College members harassed, threatened in last-ditch attempt to block Trump
Republican members of the Electoral College are facing pressure, harassment and even death threats as disgruntled opponents of President-elect Donald Trump mount a last-ditch push to keep him out of the White House.
The electors are slated to meet Dec. 19 in their home states to make the Nov. 8 election results official, which is normally a formality — but not this year.
Texas Republican Alex Kim said he and his fellow electors have been inundated with emails and phone calls from those urging them to consider switching their votes for Mr. Trump to Democratic presidential candidate Hillary Clinton.
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/nov/22/gop-electors-harassed-threatened-foes-maneuver-blo/
Do we contract them and ask them not to part of a fraudulent election result in their state?
The Constitution gives state legislatures the authority to determine how the electors are selected. And they did that, when they passed laws giving that power to the voters.
Yeah, if they vote like we would naturally think they would. But would they? That’s the important question. I have very shallow faith in the republican Party anymore, and I have been a devout supporter all along. Would never vote for a Democrat.
Get them to issue joint resolutions stating they are happy that this time their elections appear to have gone smoothly and without dispute. But that they remind mindful of the their great responsibilities and duties to act under the 12th should they see the need. The office under consideration is President of the United States of America, not of the United Peoples. The Union and every state is guaranteed to have a republican form of government under the Constitution. They, as the people's delegated representatives under a republican system, possess the ultimate power. It is their duty to use it responsibly when they see problems and to protect the system. If the newer direct presidential election system is broken it becomes their duly elected duty, as the best available representatives of the people's will, to indirectly choose a President for their electorate. As was originally done and as improved by the Framing generation's 12th Amendment.
There should be no great pre-formed political opposition to such humble declarations of fact. They'd be changing nothing in their own states. But by publicly reminding us they provide moral support for those who states offer tougher choices.
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