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News Flash: Most Republicans Are Socialists, Too
American Thinker ^ | Allen Gindler

Posted on 11/18/2020 4:00:52 AM PST by RoosterRedux

Many people ask how we got to this point in our country, where everything now hangs in the balance, and the socialist takeover is quite real. The answer is [...] twofold.

First, neither ordinary people nor public opinion leaders understand what socialism is [...]. However, there are very few academics whose works correctly describe the essence of socialism. Their lonely voices drown in the stream of misconceptions about the subject.

The first misapprehension is that socialism is solely equated with Marxism and Marx's materialist philosophical concepts. The materialist definition of socialism posits communal ownership of the means of production, collective management, and distribution of wealth. However, socialism is a generic notion, and Marxism is a theory of communism, the particular and extreme current of socialism. Therefore, Marxism is undoubtedly socialistic, but it does not encompass the whole of socialism. The materialist understanding of socialism missed a significant subject of collectivization: the individual himself. Since the time of Plato, it has been known that socialism presupposes the subordination of the individual to the collective, which means the construction of a hierarchical society in which the elites rule the state and the commoners obey meekly.

History shows that the collectivization of consciousness is even more critical than the socialization of property. It is no wonder that such socialist trends as fascism, national socialism, and reformism used the collectivization of consciousness as the main path to socialism. But even the theory of communism proposed the dictatorship of the proletariat, first for the violent expropriation of private property into the collective and then for the subordination of the entire population to communist ideology. Therefore, the definition of socialism must surpass the boundary of its materialist understanding and include ideas and practices of anti-materialist, anti-positivist flavors of collectivist ideology.

(Excerpt) Read more at americanthinker.com ...


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To: bert
Only a union steward who hates business would ask that question

So you non answer implies there is no difference. Checkmate.

21 posted on 11/18/2020 4:43:21 AM PST by central_va (I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn...)
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To: billyboy15

“B-b-b-but someone didnt make enough to live like they want in old age and it’s all due to systemic gender-trans-racial-gay-lesbian-whositwhatsit-ism”

Then we are right back to socialism....


22 posted on 11/18/2020 4:45:51 AM PST by RFEngineer
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To: RFEngineer

That should remove any doubt that “conservatives” in America are socialists too.


It would have to be phased out.

Thanks to a divorce 25 years ago, I was wiped out and all I have (I’m now 67) is social security as my retirement plan. Well, that and I moved to an area with a very low cost of living and I paid off all debt - and acquired more land than I need, also debt free, as a possible income generator.

But I have been against SS my whole life. If I’d put that same amount of money just in a bank savings account, divorce notwithstanding, I’d have a LOT more money than SS is giving me.

I’m a huge proponent of increasing the SS retirement age incrementally until virtually nobody receives it because virtually nobody lives that long. Come to think of it, that is how it stared. The average lifespan was lower than the retirement age when SS began.

But yeah, I’m against any Government plan that gives money directly to individuals. Parks, Roads, etc are not like that.


23 posted on 11/18/2020 4:46:05 AM PST by cuban leaf (The political war playing out in every country now: Globalists vs Nationalists)
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To: RoosterRedux

Idiotic.


24 posted on 11/18/2020 4:47:13 AM PST by McGruff (We shall not go quietly into the night. We will not surrender without a fight.)
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To: Lee'sGhost

How many Americans are waiting until the magic date so they can get the “free” stuff from medicare?

The average conservative is not very far removed from a practical standpoint from a fire-breathing AOC socialist. They hate to admit it, but its true.


25 posted on 11/18/2020 4:49:47 AM PST by RFEngineer
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To: RFEngineer
Ask a freeper about social security benefits and if they should be reduced or eliminated.

Ask them if Social Security should be in individual accounts, with property rights, instead of an pay as you go system, where the money belongs to the state, and you will get a much different answer.

26 posted on 11/18/2020 4:52:18 AM PST by marktwain (President Trump and his supporters are the Resistance. His opponents are the Reactionaries. )
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To: RoosterRedux

Correct...like the Georgia governor and sec of state...sold out...I’d even say they are fascists.

Conservatives, OTOH, are free-market, free-thinking, constitutionalists and are patriots and will protect the republic...


27 posted on 11/18/2020 4:54:16 AM PST by CincyRichieRich (Stand Back Quitter Caucus. Go Sit Down. NO SURRENDER! )
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To: RFEngineer
I consistently make this very point. The looks I get are amazing.

The rebuttal reply is usually, "well, I paid into social security so I should get it."

I reply, "No, you didn't pay into the system...your money was taken from you. It is not voluntary."

28 posted on 11/18/2020 4:54:38 AM PST by ealgeone
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To: RoosterRedux
Socialism and the understanding that a government is required, are not the same thing.

It is all a continuum.

You can claim society is on the road to socialism when they make public roads. That does not make it true.

29 posted on 11/18/2020 4:55:33 AM PST by marktwain (President Trump and his supporters are the Resistance. His opponents are the Reactionaries. )
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To: marktwain

“Ask them if Social Security should be in individual accounts, with property rights, instead of an pay as you go system, where the money belongs to the state, and you will get a much different answer”

And institutionalize inequality? Why should someone who didnt work as hard as you get less in retirement?

Yeah, it’s a rhetorical question. You know we are so socialist already that this would not fly


30 posted on 11/18/2020 4:57:44 AM PST by RFEngineer
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To: marktwain

+1


31 posted on 11/18/2020 5:00:13 AM PST by x
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To: RoosterRedux

Socialism in the US has its roots going way back in the 19th Century. Authors like Emerson long embraced extremist socialist ideas, which even then were destructive, hateful insanity. By the time of the Civil War, socialism offered things like a justification of slavery, and feudal rule by the 10% of elites over the 90% of everyone else.

Of course any objective analysis of their claptrap showed that it was worthless, but this did not deter them in the slightest.

The big schism in socialism began just before the turn of the 20th Century in both Europe and the US, in the latter called “progressivism”. In Europe the split was between the National Socialists (fascists) and the Socialist-Communists.

In the US, nationalist socialists embraced Teddy Roosevelt, and internationalist socialists embraced Woodrow Wilson.

It should be mentioned that in the US, both the far left and right were minorities in their respective political parties, the vast majority of centrists not supporting either philosophy.

With the utter failure of Russian communism under Lenin, progressive leftists in the US did try developing fascist economic ideas in the great depression, but they were almost as bad as the communist ideas.

Yet the vast conservative center remains, with no interest in the failed 19th Century philosophies of socialist progressivism.


32 posted on 11/18/2020 5:24:25 AM PST by yefragetuwrabrumuy ("All men and women were created by the, you know, you know, the thing." -- Joe Biden 3/3/20)
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To: RFEngineer

Ask before someone has paid into the system all their working life. If I would have been able to add that tax to my investments, I wouldn’t need(aka want) SS.


33 posted on 11/18/2020 5:26:12 AM PST by Starstruck ( )
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To: yefragetuwrabrumuy

Excellent summation.


34 posted on 11/18/2020 5:27:57 AM PST by marktwain (President Trump and his supporters are the Resistance. His opponents are the Reactionaries. )
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To: billyboy15

Until recently, it has always been extremely taboo to openly talk about the lack of knowledge of American voters because so many people wanted to use the “the American people will not stand for this!” moniker as if it had significance in swaying politicians; however, I have always had a deeply cynical view of peoples’ judgement, especially on civic matters.


35 posted on 11/18/2020 5:35:30 AM PST by MachIV
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To: RFEngineer
Ask a freeper about social security benefits and if they should be reduced or eliminated.

I would be willing to see Social Security benefits reduced or eliminated, even though I'm going to retire soon.

Provided that

ALL means-tested government programs are eliminated FIRST. That means all of welfare, all of Medicaid, all of "Food stamps"/SNAP/whatever-the-hell-they-call-it-today, Section 8 housing, etc, etc. ALL OF IT, FIRST. And fire the government employees administering it, sell off the buildings, and a Constitutional amendment that the federal government will not be involved, directly or indirectly, in any future program of charity to the poor.

THEN, I would go for SS being eliminated.

Deal?

36 posted on 11/18/2020 5:42:58 AM PST by PapaBear3625 ("Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities." -- Voltaire)
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To: lodi90

LOL, so true. That has been going on for days around here.


37 posted on 11/18/2020 5:53:49 AM PST by dforest (RATS are criminals and frauds. Hide anything that belongs to you. They will steal it.)
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To: RFEngineer

I consider socialism as an economics system where the majority of all production is done under the direction of government planners.

To me Social Security is a collectivist, wealth-redistriubtion program. That may seem like a distinction without a difference, but one deals with the means of production the other (more narrowly) deals with wealth-redistribution.

Now it’s true that one could have so many wealth-redistribution programs in a nation that the EFFECT is little different than socialist planning. But I don’t think we’re anywhere near that yet.


38 posted on 11/18/2020 5:53:58 AM PST by Bishop_Malachi (Liberal Socialism - A philosophy which advocates spreading a low standard of living equally.)
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To: RoosterRedux
This is a long screed that claims that any form of collective sharing is socialism, and will lead to total communism.

The social security system is socialism, but it is so ingrained into our system, that without a total shooting revolution, it will continue.

It is extremely difficult to clean out socialist programs, i.e. subsidies for college, medicade, free ______.

39 posted on 11/18/2020 5:57:56 AM PST by USS Alaska (NUKE ALL MOOSELIMB TERRORISTS, NOW.)
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To: RoosterRedux

Speak for yourself, Gindler, kkthx.


40 posted on 11/18/2020 6:06:31 AM PST by cranked
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