Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

WADDA WE DO NOW? "The Slow Roll" (Election history may have the answer)
Uncoverdc.com ^ | September 21, 2020 | Larry Schweikart

Posted on 11/04/2020 5:17:39 AM PST by Liz

It’s well known that the Democrats have announced their plan to delay the counting of votes in the November presidential election as long as possible. Some think they want it to go to the US Supreme Court, where John Roberts might again abandon conservatives and stick it to Donald Trump.

Remember, despite the polls, increasingly the murmurs coming from the Democrats are that they will drag the vote-counting out until 2021 and/or put the matter into the courts.

Can they do this? Is it possible? The fact is, almost no one knows.

In the 1876 presidential election, the electoral counts from three states were in, creating a stalemate that took weeks to resolve.

One less-than-reliable answer comes from the less-than-reliable Atlantic, which cited the 1887 Electoral Count Act adopted in the wake of the 1876 election between Rutherford B. Hayes and Samuel Tilden. Easily, this was the closest election in American history, requiring a joint commission of Congress to evaluate contested electoral votes from Louisiana, Florida, and South Carolina—all of which apparently favored the Democrat Samuel Tilden. Each state, however, had claims of vote fraud and threats of violence against Republicans (especially the freedmen who voted Republican).

South Carolina, for example, saw 101% of all eligible voters vote, auguring the famous 1960 election in Chicago where the dead voted. (It’s worth noting that the loser, Tilden, won the popular vote with a whopping 57% to Hayes’s 42%).

The Electoral Count Act requires that electors be chosen for the Electoral College no later than 41 days after the national election. In this case, that date would be December 14.

A reading of the language of the act seems to say that whoever is ahead on December 14 wins, period. But what is meant by “ahead?” A US Congressman tells me that the requirement is fixed in stone: someone has to get to 270, but National Review’s Andrew McCarthy disagrees.

The law itself seems to say just the opposite: “The person having the greatest number of votes for President, shall be the President, if such number be a majority of the whole number of Electors appointed.” What is the “whole number of Electors appointed?” Does that mean “appointed” by the states that have submitted elector slates or appointed by the de facto total number of electors available? McCarthy says that the president must have a majority of those submitted, not 270.

In the U.S. Civil War, we had exactly this situation. Remember, Lincoln defined the war as a “rebellion,” meaning the Southern states never left the Union. But in practical terms, they had.

So what happened with their electors in 1864? There were none submitted. Yet the election went forward with Lincoln winning because he won the majority of the electors submitted.

Using the example that the Atlantic chose, Pennsylvania, it is possible that the presidential election could come down to Pennsylvania and that its votes can’t be counted by Dec. 14.

Does the state just lose its votes? Some scholars say yes. National Review’s Andrew McCarthy argued “the process is controlled by Congress under longstanding statutory law (found in Chapter 1 of Title 3, U.S. Code).

In a nutshell, all state disputes, if any, over election results must be resolved by December 8.” Let’s call that the certification date. That is, a state is required to certify its slate of electors, which will determine who won the state, by December 8. Then, on December 14 the electors meet in their states and cast their votes. Note: nowhere is the state’s governor involved in this. While a Secretary of State has to provide the certification on December 8, the governor has no role in the election process.

For example, 3 U.S. Code § 2. “Failure to Make Choice on Prescribed Day,” says “Whenever any State has held an election for the purpose of choosing electors, and has failed to make a choice on the day prescribed by law, the electors may be appointed on a subsequent day in such a manner as the legislature of such State may direct.” (By the way, Pennsylvania, Michigan, and Wisconsin all have Republican legislatures).

Again, the governor is irrelevant. However, the chief executive of the state is required to transmit the results to the U.S. Archivist. What happens if no certificates of electors are transmitted? This is the “monkey in the wrench” as John McClain said in Die Hard.

Other then a fine for the person appointed by the state to deliver the certificate of electors’ votes to the President of the Senate who fails to deliver such a slate ($1,000) there is no state penalty for failure to participate in the election. (In 3 U.S. Code § 12., 13, 14)

Indeed, this is the biggest problem in the new US Code relating to the elections, as nothing is said about what happens to a state that fails to deliver its electors. In 3 US Code § 12 and 13, when no certified vote from any state has been received by the Senate or the archivist, they can “request” the secretary of state of the state in question to send up the certificate “lodged with him by the electors of such state.” Wait! What if there are no electors because the votes are “still being counted?” The Code doesn’t specify what comes next, although oddly it allows a district judge “in whose custody one certificate of votes from that state has been lodged” to transmit the votes.

Again, however, no one ever asked the question: “What if a state does not want its votes counted?” Electoral votes that are certified in the state are then transmitted to Congress, a process that is supposed to be completed by December 23. On January 6 at 1 p.m., both houses of Congress convene to count the votes. If no president has been chosen by that time, the House of Representatives is to choose from between the top two elector recipients. Right here the doomsayers scream “See! I knew Pelosi would steal it!” Well, no. The House is to vote—not by member (i.e., 435)—but by delegation. Republicans in the current House control 26, Democrats 23, and one is split.

This then would elect Donald Trump as President. (The Senate then decides the vice president, and here Pence would be the selection). “Wait! What if it is the next House?”

There is nothing whatsoever to suggest that a single delegation could flip to the Democrats, let alone two and quite the opposite likelihood that the Republicans will expand their seats in the House—though I don’t know the delegations well enough to determine if another could flip to the GOP.

So what’s the verdict?

It appears a majority of whichever electors are certified on December 14 is the winner.

If states hold out, for any reason, they can be pressured to conform, but there is no penalty under law.

Apparently, however, they would just lose their electoral votes. (Even the most goofball radical Democrat governor would think twice about ceding his state’s place in a presidential election—there is too much precedent set there.) And, remember, legislatures have the final call on all matters related to the electors. The state legislatures can simply say “Time’s up” and force the Secretary of State to certify, probably even over the opposition of a governor. Of course, each of these steps likely would go to court.

The House would vote for Trump anyway.

Finally, any court tinkering with any of this would surely know that the only solution would be a full-blown re-writing of all U.S. election law. Just as the court did in Bush v. Gore, they will quickly conclude this is way beyond the abilities of any—and probably all—the courts in the nation.

In short, if Trump wins election night, he will likely win on December 14.

=====================================================

Larry Schweikart is the co-author with Michael Allen of the New York Times #1 bestseller A Patriot’s History of the United States, author of Reagan: the American President, and founder of the Wild World of History, a history curriculum website for homeschoolers and other educators with a US and World history curriculum that includes teacher guides, student workbooks, tests, images/graphs, and a video lesson accompanying every written lesson (www.wildworldofhistory.com).


TOPICS: Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS:
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-6061-8081-83 next last
To: Liz

Your link to the original source is no good.


61 posted on 11/04/2020 7:56:26 AM PST by Mariner (War Criminal #18)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Mariner

Do a search of the title.


62 posted on 11/04/2020 8:23:06 AM PST by Liz ( Our side has 8 trillion bullets; the other side doesn't know which bathroom to use.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 61 | View Replies]

To: Liz; LS; Admin Moderator

“Do a search of the title.”

The title exists only in your posting.

UncoverDC has no such title. And FR has only this iteration.

FR requires a valid link for 3rd party articles.

It’s how fraudulent postings are prevented.


63 posted on 11/04/2020 8:49:30 AM PST by Mariner (War Criminal #18)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 62 | View Replies]

To: alstewartfan

You make one hellish cheerleader - I’m saying that giving up without a fight is asinine.


64 posted on 11/04/2020 8:54:07 AM PST by trebb (Don't howl about illegal leeches, or Trump in general, while not donating to FR - it's hypocritical.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 60 | View Replies]

To: Mariner

Oh please.....do your homework.....there’s also a web site posted.


65 posted on 11/04/2020 9:02:03 AM PST by Liz ( Our side has 8 trillion bullets; the other side doesn't know which bathroom to use.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 63 | View Replies]

To: All
One lawsuit to watch involves election officials in PA suburb Montgomery Cty contacting mail-in voters w/ defective ballots
to give them a chance to fix or “cure” the problem, like a missing signature..............apparently in violation of state law.......

A local Republican candidate sued to (A) stop the practice and (B) for the ballots not to be counted, both on the state law claim, and,
(C) because, (drum roll please) citing Bush v. Gore, in the FLA mess, it’s a "federal equal protection violation" for some voters to be
notified about curing their ballots while not notifying others.

66 posted on 11/04/2020 9:02:47 AM PST by Liz ( Our side has 8 trillion bullets; the other side doesn't know which bathroom to use.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 57 | View Replies]

To: trebb; alstewartfan

While folks like you quit, I prefer to do what I can - Just made a donation to Team Trump to help with the legal battles ahead - wrap your own lips around that.


67 posted on 11/04/2020 9:02:53 AM PST by trebb (Don't howl about illegal leeches, or Trump in general, while not donating to FR - it's hypocritical.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 64 | View Replies]

To: Liz

Liz,

You have a responsibility to correct this. Near as I can tell the article does not exist on UncoverDC.


68 posted on 11/04/2020 10:22:14 AM PST by Mariner (War Criminal #18)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 65 | View Replies]

To: trebb

THIS JUST IN: ABC News takes AZ Out of Biden’s Column back to No Result
ABC News | ABC / FR Posted by Smogger

Arizona has become purple and is considered in play for Democrats. It’s also home to a highly competitive and expensive Senate race .....Sen. Martha McSally against Democratic challenger Mark Kelly (Kelly supposedly won).

In 2016, President Donald Trump won the state by just over three points. The vote will likely come down to Maricopa home to Phoenix and the state’s largest voting bloc.

*Counties are colored red or blue when the % expected vote reporting reaches a set threshold. This threshold varies by state and is based on patterns of past vote reporting and expectations about how the vote will report this year.

(Excerpt) Read more at abcnews.go.com ...


69 posted on 11/04/2020 11:58:28 AM PST by Liz ( Our side has 8 trillion bullets; the other side doesn't know which bathroom to use.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 67 | View Replies]

To: Pining_4_TX

I thought it was such an important thread that
only the Grand Poobahs of FR could start one.

**********

May be it’s nice to mess with their mess kit every
once in a while just for fun.


70 posted on 11/04/2020 12:08:56 PM PST by deport
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: Liz; LS

Larry, it sounds great. But it fails to account for the fact that the whole of the power elites will ignore the law and “create” their own “facts.”

By the way, fabulous show last night. Best election night coverage I’ve ever seen. And I’ve followed them all since 1968.


71 posted on 11/04/2020 12:16:53 PM PST by sitetest (No longer mostly dead.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Pining_4_TX

PS what part of the Lone Star did you hail from? I was in
SE TX for many years. Now up on the east coast as my
wife wants to stay closer to the grand kids.


72 posted on 11/04/2020 12:17:03 PM PST by deport
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: sitetest

You are 100% right.

I think vote “fraud” is far less of a threat than the Hoax Media, which totally manipulated election night with their early calls and non calls.


73 posted on 11/04/2020 2:41:17 PM PST by LS ("Castles made of sand, fall in the sea . . . eventually" (Hendrix))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 71 | View Replies]

To: LS

Who is “Zen Master”? I could not find that one on your chart of nicknames. LOL!


74 posted on 11/04/2020 4:42:30 PM PST by ConjunctionJunction
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 73 | View Replies]

To: LS

Nevermind, I see now that he is a legal guy you know with a pretty good track record.


75 posted on 11/04/2020 4:57:17 PM PST by ConjunctionJunction
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 74 | View Replies]

To: deport

We got around - Dallas and Houston areas. My parents lived in San Antonio.


76 posted on 11/04/2020 5:46:18 PM PST by Pining_4_TX (I'm old enough to remember when you actually had to be able to do something to be hired to do it.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 72 | View Replies]

To: LS
I think vote “fraud” is far less of a threat than the Hoax Media, which totally manipulated election night with their early calls and non calls.

I disagree. Well, I agree that the News Misleadia manipulated the calls to manipulate the people. However, I think voter fraud was huge and important.

Several states stopped counting. Well, they SAID they stopped counting. They said they were going to restart the count at 9:00AM. Then, Biden-heavy drops occurred at 3:00AM. Circumstances scream FRAUD.

Here in Georgia, the excuse to stop counting was a 'water main break.' Weird break, that one: Hit one precinct, skipped over another, then hit another precinct, then skipped two more, then hit two precincts.

Then, this miraculous 'water main break' winded it's way over 13 more precincts, going north, then started breaking all over 5 more precincts.

Bullshit.

They got a couple of union pipefitters to create some of those 'water main breaks'.

77 posted on 11/04/2020 5:54:58 PM PST by Lazamataz (The NYT commits acts of violence with their words.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 73 | View Replies]

To: Liz

While this is true, I encourage Republican State legislators to appoint Republican electors in the states where voter fraud is suspected and/or shown.


78 posted on 11/04/2020 6:21:56 PM PST by Lazamataz (The NYT commits acts of violence with their words.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 27 | View Replies]

To: LS

HOLY S**T! @kelliwardaz, WHAT IS GOING ON!?!

GET REPUBLICANS THERE NOW!!!!

This is how we lose AZ! pic.twitter.com/FnDIwz8uvG— Chief America 1st Trumpster (Support Kenosha King) (@ChiefTrumpster) November 5, 2020

(Maricopa counting the Sharpie votes, but with NO GOP OBSERVERS ONLY DEMS)
79 posted on 11/04/2020 7:40:39 PM PST by grey_whiskers (The opinions are solely those of the author and are subject to change with out notice.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 73 | View Replies]

To: grey_whiskers

No Republicans volunteered....typical.


80 posted on 11/04/2020 7:42:16 PM PST by dfwgator (Endut! Hoch Hech!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 79 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-6061-8081-83 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson