Posted on 09/19/2020 8:21:21 AM PDT by artichokegrower
Thank you for your kind words, undeserving as I am of them. You appear to be what any honorable man aspires to be. I thank you for your service, and for your gentle reminder of HOW and WHERE we stand in the big picture.
Good story. Thanks
Had mine in 75 just out of high school joining USN as Nam was winding down. Massive room with a hundred pieces of tape on floor. One enlistee per tape, standing in your underwear, staring ahead uneasily.
I followed the command to drop the drawers. I didn’t expect the lady suddenly on my left to grab a testicle as she said,”Cough!”. I wheezed a what and she was gone.
Was pretty sure that was the most embarrassing thing in my life. Well, until a few minutes later when the order came to,”Spread your butt cheeks apart with both hands and bend over!”. Good times...
By today’s standards, it’s an outstanding film that didn’t promote the Leftwing BS that’s infected virtually every form of media today.
Have you noticed how today’s series start off fairly interesting, then after a few episodes, awkwardly timed homosodes are shoved in your face. WTF?
Thank-you for sharing that story. Once again FR provides either first person on 2nd person insight into obscure historical events that would have been lost other wise.
“That tragic event occurred moments after Rose had been captured during the U.S. advance on Paderborn, Germany.”
This is I believe the first time his capture has been mentioned in this thread. So I’m still at a loss as to the actual events surrounding his death. In the first place, capture of a two star General, is not going to be a secret event. There should have been numerous witnesses to the capture, both American and German, hopefully not all were killed at the time. The helmet itself which he was wearing, was a dead giveaway, no pun intended, as to his rank and importance to the enemy. Random shooting of Generals is not considered proper tactics in any man’s army.
If you have read the later biography was there a full account of the events? Third Armor History doesn’t mention much at least the parts I read.
“Thank you all for your comments here, that have enriched me once again, as an octogenarian, still appreciating, still learning what little I can about war and about the peace that follows.”
We share some common interests.
Here is your rabbit hole for today. I download them to play in the car. Warriors In Their Own Words
https://warriorsitow.libsyn.com/
Yes, I have the book, Major General Maurice Rose - World War II’s Greatest Forgotten Commander, and I recommend it. It is available instantly in Kindle format from Amazon, or in paperback and discounted used hardback versions.
The book has a detailed account of the events that resulted in his death. This morning I see that the Wikipedia entry has been revised and is now in line with the description in the book. He was killed by 14 bullets from the tank commander who captured them. It is hard for me to believe that the Germans did not realize who they had in their custody despite the fading light. His vehicle, his uniform, his enterage, his helmet all would have made it obvious. From an analysis of the wounds the general was shot while his hands were held above his head.
Many pages in the book cover the sequence of events and the investigation performed immediately afterwards in great detail. It also discusses the flaws in the methodology and reasoning which reached the conclusion while the war was still going on that it was all just a big misunderstanding. It is my own opinion that the conclusion was intentionally misleading as were various other versions told of the events leading to General Rose's death.
I was born in 1936, and grew up in a culture just full of veterans whose exploits were reported daily from 1941 to 1945, and who brought their well-earned early maturity back into their home towns. Many, if not most, took advantage of the G. I. Bill, wisely offered to them and paid for by a grateful society.
Soon after that picture of "Clanky" was taken, Major Currie et al, would be in the Battle of the Falaise Gap, at Saint-Lambert-sur-Dive.
Pictures at the town:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/mlq/4429713244/in/photostream/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/mlq/2458247025/
Bits and pieces.
I knew a young USCG Lt. He had just returned from recovery, from his activities in South Vietnam. He was badly chewed up by enemy fire, and his scars were never going away.
A friend of mine was a US Army surgeon at Henderson Field, Guadacanal, August 1942. He described performing surgery on young men, while on his knees in a tent surrounded by bags of earth and sand, through which enemy rounds still progressed.
It seems the most of the insanity of war, is made up of things happening - that strike somebody else as “not plausible” or “not possible.”
Including “ground pounders” having an impression that “flyboys” had it easy “up there” where there was no place to hide.
A story about the 1942 Doolittle Raid: Early in the concept planning, a young Lt., was assigned to fly a B-25C at low altitude, cross country - back and forth around the USA. He would occasionally show up, on the deck, at one of the more major USAAF fields and took some heat for being careless. His mission was to learn the unexpected, that would be information used in training the Doolittle Raiders. He is remembered for being careless. There are maybe three people alive who remember him not being careless.
The father of an online friend of mine, was a tanker in the Free French Army, by slow chance (many events led to his just happening to be in training for tank ops). There was much about the situation in Africa, that obscured chances of returning to fight for France at home, but he maintained that dream.
For whatever diplomatic reasons, SHAEF chose to allow the Free French to be first to enter Paris; the situation on the ground, trying to get to Paris, before entering Paris, was not as newsreels and movies have portrayed.
His few tanks were the first to enter, after intense days, every step of the way to the gates -— the issues being forced by “diplomatically having been handed the honor.”
Contrary to the ridicule in the media and history, the Free French of his and surrounding units, had fought hard with many lives lost.
Before Dunkirk: The British and others, plus the media and history, lampoon the Belgians for failing before the German blitz. Some Belgians did fail, mostly for lack of resources in places that did not provide for much maneuver, yet also, from the lack of leadership (and same, for the French). While other Belgians made life miserable for the advancing Germans.
Another online friend, was unhappy enough, about the problems with official stories and history, that he retired to France and spent the rest of his life touring France, but especially Normandy -— collecting tidbits and piecing many details together, before the Internet. What he learned, made its way into others’ books and movies - that showed more of what happened, in various details.
BTW, my understanding is that USA tank crews passed the word and would chisel and scrape away as much paint as they could, from the inside of vehicles.
Thanks, sounds like poor battlefield decision making engaging in rather ruthless behaviour necessitated by the knowledge they, the Germans were losing the war on both fronts. There was ruthless going on, on many battlefields, there was a war going on.
Both General Rose and Patton weren’t looking to go out the way they did, but then neither were the hundreds of thousands of young soldiers, civilians, and other casualties of WWII. Bless their sacrifice whether willing or not for the peace we still enjoy today.
Born early ‘40. As a six year old found my self living in Germany following the war. My Father was a group commander and medium bomber pilot who remained in Germany for a year after the war. Mom, sister and I were on the third boatload of American wives and children to sail to Germany after the war in June of ‘46. The town we lived in was relatively untouched outwardly other than housing being requisitioned for us to live in.
There was a very popular series in Poland in the 1960s called “Four Tank-Men and a Dog”, and it’s still popular there even today. Kind of the Polish “Hogan’s Heroes”.
That wasn't what my wife's father said. My wife's dad said repeatedly... "Those poor sons of bitches up in those airplanes get shot down they either get killed or captured. Those poor sons of bitches floating around in those ships either get drowned or eaten by sharks. Hell my tank got hit, I jumped out and ran like hell. I had the best damned job in the whole army... Hell, I had the best damned job in the whole war!"
There was dialog similar to that in the movie. Which was one of the reasons my wife was so shaken by the movie. My wife's dad was a recon tanker in the 3rd Armored Division. He lost 13 tanks during the war, some of them due to mechanical failure, but some were hit by the enemy and some of his buddies in the tanks he was in were killed. His left hand was all messed up because he opened the hatch and a German bayonet went through it before he was able to shoot the guy with his 45.
His name was Paul Swinford; he was a farm boy from Coles County Illinois. When he joined the army in 1938. When he got off the bus... they said, "Lookie here we got ourselves a farm boy who is so fresh that he still has manure on his shoes." He said that he did the worst possible thing and looked over his shoes. He joked that he could not figure out how they knew he was a farm boy because he was wearing his best pair of overalls with a tie.
My brother worked with a guy who went to Nam. When he came home from basic he and his dad were setting on the front porch and his dad asked him how it went. He went on all about basic and the physical. He realized later that his dad knew all that went on because he was a WWII vet. His dad just wanted to hear him tell it.
I downloaded the PDF file of “Spearhead . . .” Spent too much time reading it last night.
Thanks for all your info - very interesting reading.
Those weren’t paint chips. They were spalling, fragments of the tank’s armor.
Look up what you can find on Major General J.P. Shirley Wood.
Also known as “The Professor” and “Tiger Jack”.
I believe he trained the Fourth Armored in England and then took them into France.
He got into a pissing match with his Corps Commander (Manton Eddy?) who relieved him. Fired him because “He was too close to his Soldiers.”
Tiger Jack was no spring chicken and I think Patton figured it was easier to replace a Division Commander than a Corps Commander.
After the war, the division had a reunion. There was a head table.
The general who took over from Tiger Jack came up and took the seat of honor.
It got quiet.
One of the higher ranking officers came up to the general and asked him to move because he was sitting in Tiger Jack’s seat.
After the war.
After he had been relieved.
His Soldiers still loved and honored him.
That’s how you know you did a good job.
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