Posted on 05/12/2020 4:06:10 PM PDT by conservative98
The autopsy report for Ahmaud Arbery, the 25-year-old who was fatally shot in a Georgia neighborhood, showed that he was shot three times, twice in the chest and once in the hand. The report also concluded Arbery did not have drugs or alcohol in his system, according to a copy of the report obtained by CBS News.
Gregory McMichael, 64, and his son Travis, 34, were charged with Arbery's murder 74 days after they chased, shot and killed him on February 23. The McMichaels told police they thought Arbery was a burglary suspect.
Arbery's family said he was out for a routine jog that day.
(Excerpt) Read more at cbsnews.com ...
How did he know the police were on the way and how did he know that if he just sat there they wouldn't shoot him?
The jogger went out of his way to attack a man carrying a weapon in an open carry state, attempting to obtain his weapon. The jogger could have stopped, continued on straight, or turned around. He didn’t choose to do so. BTW, if you grab a rifle by the barrel and pull, the weapon will discharge. You pull, the trigger finger doesn’t move.. Can you figure it out?
The jogger was told that the police had been called. The rest of your post is conjecture.
Pure conjecture on your part.
But absolutely no conjecture on your part though, is that it?
When was that? According to what they told the police the only thing they said to Arbrey was to stop, they wanted to talk to him. Based on what I've seen in the tape the circumstances did not allow for in-depth conversation.
And if the police were on the way the why the need to stop him anyway? Why not wait for the police?
And why would he do that if not out of fear for his life or safety? Kind of a last-ditch act don't you think?
The jogger could have stopped, continued on straight, or turned around.
And let himself be shot? Really?
BTW, if you grab a rifle by the barrel and pull, the weapon will discharge. You pull, the trigger finger doesn’t move.. Can you figure it out?
And for it to fire then next two rounds into the victim then wouldn't the shooter have to work the pump and pull the trigger? Twice?
Your assertion they have been “caught in so many lies”
You knew what I meant and are just being smarmy.
It's statements like this that give me pause. Granted, I'm "just" a Detective but how defense attorneys could laugh at the case against the father blows my mind. Someone doesn't need to pull the trigger to be guilty of murder.
“BTW, I was sitting around with 4 other defense attorneys today, and all of us agreed 100% that the case against the Dad is laughable”
It’s statements like this that give me pause. Granted, I’m “just” a Detective but how defense attorneys could laugh at the case against the father blows my mind. Someone doesn’t need to pull the trigger to be guilty of murder.”
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I fully understand that someone doesn’t need to “pull the trigger” to be guilty of murder. There are two types of First Degree Murder: 1) Premeditated murder and 2) Felony-Murder. So let’s talk about Dad’s case. There is ZERO proof that Dad acted with “premeditation.” Their intent wasn’t to kill Arbery—at worst it was to stop him and ask him what he was doing or perhaps to apprehend him (although that is not clear). If Dad’s intent was to kill him, he would have pulled his gun out and shot him.
So premeditated murder is out the window. Next, there are a few a-holes on this post who haven’t a clue as to what “felony murder” means. The “felony-murder” doctrine is basically First Degree Murder WITHOUT premeditation. So if 5 robbers all agree ahead of time to rob the bank, and they all sign an oath NOT to shoot anybody or kill anybody, they go in with a note that says “I have a bomb,” and a security guard shoots and kills a robber/employee/customer, all 5 robbers are guilty of felony-murder, as death was a “forseeable outcome” of their felony. The reason myself and 4 other defense attorneys (all former prosecutors) were laughing is this: What is the UNDERLYING felony that Dad was conspiring with his son to do? Standing in a truck? Requesting an (obvious) criminal suspect to stop and explain why he was running out of a previously burgled home? The race-baiting lawyers are suggesting that it was “kidnapping,” but that crime in GA one to “abduct or steal away another person without lawful authority...and holds such person against his will.” THAT DID NOT HAPPEN IN THIS CASE. Arbery was not “abducted” or “st[olen] away.” And these guys likely had “lawful authority” because they had PC to believe a crime had been committed within their knowledge. So yes, we were laughing, because the case against the Dad is 100% political.
Let me put it this way. Let’s say a loved one was walking down that street. You are talking with the loved one by cell phone. The loved one says to you, “There is a pick up truck up in front of me. There is a man in the bed of the truck and one right outside of the truck. They both have shotguns and are looking right at me. What should I do?”
What is your answer and why?
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Your hypothetical is not an apples to apples comparison. But here is what I would say on the phone to my son:
1) Son, you are a young white guy, why are you running in an isolated, all-black neighborhood filled with mature houses that is located 10 miles from our house?
2) Son, you are NOT a jogger, so why are you running in said neighborhood?
3) Son, if you have done nothing wrong, you should engage the men in conversation. As you have handled guns in the past yourself, and you live in a “gun culture” in the deep South, you have nothing to worry about.
What I would NOT tell him is this: “Son, fake like you are running a different direction and then, suddenly, make a 90 degree turn and sprint at the guy with the shotgun, put your hand on the shotgun and fight the guy.”
I think the underlying felony charged in this case is aggravated assault. Which, correct me if I'm wrong, revolves around using a gun to detain someone.
You and I differ on basic but important elements of this case. I see a guy walk into a construction site, look around, and leave. I do not see a complainant (the owner of the property). I see no way the father/son could have immediate knowledge of a felony being committed by the deceased, let alone witnessed a felony. I see the stop as bad which means everything that happens after the stop was bad. IMHO.
Felony aggravated assault (They certainly committed that), false imprisonment, possibly kidnapping, stalking can be a felony in Georgia.
Tell me Mr. Lawyer, what grounds did they have to chase this guy in a truck with guns, then to cut him off, after which he ran the other way, then try to block him off again, then pull up alongside them again, and have one of them jump out with a shotgun?
Keep in mind, according to what the two men claimed at the scene, they witness no crime. Although what they did is not legal, even if they had.
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You throw out crimes and theories that you obviously know nothing about, while suggesting I’m not a lawyer. “Stalking” did not remotely take place here—it requires a course of conduct far more than parking a truck in the road. “Kidnapping” requires an abduction or the “stealing away” of the victim. That did happen. False imprisonment requires one to be “confined” or “detained.” Did not happen—the “victim” charged full speed at a gun with a gun. Aggravated assault does not apply because 1) GA is an “open carry” state so carrying a gun and saying “stop, we want to talk with you” is protected free speech and by the 2nd Amendment; 2) the “victim” was obviously not frightened by the gun—he attacked the younger McMichael because he knew that he was BUSTED.
Finally, for the last time, you DON’T NEED TO WITNESS A CRIME to have probable cause that a crime was committed. Probable cause for arrest/detention has the same standard for police as it does for ordinary citizens. While police are typically authorized to arrest in certain cases that citizens are not allowed to, e.g., domestic assaults that they did not observe, the STANDARD for probable cause is the same. So, for example, if the elder McMichael was instead a local cop patrolling the neighborhood, and he saw a commotion and observed a KNOWN burglary suspect SPRINTING from a KNOWN burglary target, he rolls his window down and says “Stop” and the suspect keeps SPRINTING, that is 100% probable cause that he committed another burglary. To think that a cop couldn’t chase this guy down is laughable. And if a cop could chase him down, a citizen could as well, because probable cause is probable cause.
Fair.
I think the underlying felony charged in this case is aggravated assault. Which, correct me if I’m wrong, revolves around using a gun to detain someone.
You and I differ on basic but important elements of this case. I see a guy walk into a construction site, look around, and leave. I do not see a complainant (the owner of the property). I see no way the father/son could have immediate knowledge of a felony being committed by the deceased, let alone witnessed a felony. I see the stop as bad which means everything that happens after the stop was bad. IMHO.
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Thank you at least engaging in a dialogue. Some of these people on this board are rude as can be. So let me address your points:
1) Aggravated assault: Basically, this is an assault with a deadly weapon. The outside DA who investigated found no assault because GA is an “open carry” state. Example: Hundreds of angry protesters show up in Michigan at the Capitol carrying AR-15s and angrily getting in the faces of the Democrat pols. Aggravated assault? Sure, the Democrat pols are scared, but the underlying behavior is legal. As long as McMichael did not point the shotgun at Arbery, I don’t see an assault. Also, an assault requires putting the victim in “fear.” Since Mr. Arbery will not be around to testify, and he charged 15 feet and made a bee-line to grab the shotgun, that suggests that he wasn’t afraid of the gun, but rather afraid of going to jail.
Second, I have read a few GA cases. There is a mistaken belief out there that a citizen’s arrest must concern a felony. That is not true. Citizens can make arrests for misdemeanors as well that occur within their “immediate knowledge.” Since the elder McMichael called 911, he obviously had “immediate knowledge” that a crime had been committed. So “immediate knowledge isn’t the issue.”
Third, in the law we like to look at the “totality of the circumstances.” In this case, the elder McMichael was 1) clearly aware that this house had previous burglaries—so did the other 911 caller; 2) apparently, McMichael had been shown pictures of the suspect, which he recognized as the guy running past him; 3) the suspect is seen SPRINTING from the previously burgled house after a neighbor challenged him as to why he was there; 4) McMichael shouted at him to “stop,” but he kept sprinting. In my book, that is probable cause that what McMichael saw was a burglary suspect.
So here are two issues that I would like someone to find out about:
1) Can a citizen make something less than an arrest? Like a citizen’s “detention”? Police do this all the time. I ask this question because there was no “arrest” of Arbery.
2) Can a citizen make an arrest of a felony burglary suspect for a burglary that happened months earlier? The crime is in his “immediate knowledge,” but the burglar did it months ago.
__________________________________________ Some of these people on this board are rude as can be.
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And some self righteous people on this board intentionally misrepresent facts and hope not to get called on it from those pissed off at an ugly race situation in this country that only gets worse when said misrepresented facts only inflame the situation.
He did not "defend himself". He attacked a person who had confronted him, and he ran a good 60 feet to do so. It's all right there on unedited versions of the video.
That is "mutual combat" under the laws of GA and drastically changes the legal assessment of the encounter. It even makes possible a claim of "self-defense" by McMichaels. (Yes, I believe that is preposterous, but it might work because of Arbery's attack).
Do you have any proof of that? [Arbery was a burglar]
There are videos of Arbery looking through a construction site at night - in several different incidents. That site had been repeatedly burglarized, which is why it was under video surveillance.
By the way, you can't chase after a burglar and kill him.
That is not quite what happened.
someone posted a picture of a guy that looked similar to the dad at a NAZI rally, which would make him a socialist. It wasn’t clear from the picture if it was him or just some other fat grey haired guy.
The aggressors as you put it had already called the cops, so they were attempting to detain him, not kill him.
He tried to take the gun from the guy, at which point he lost his life. He was shot twice, one of the shots went through his hand and into his chest, which proves that he had his hand on the barrel of the shotgun. Pulling on the barrel could have been what made the shotgun go off in the first place.
He tried to run away from the truck twice, and they kept catching up with him. After that, he knew he wasn’t going to escape the truck.
He tried to run away from the truck twice, and they kept catching up with him. After that, he knew he wasn’t going to escape the truck.
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