Posted on 04/21/2020 10:57:21 AM PDT by TECTopcat
More deaths, no benefit from malaria drug in VA virus study By MARILYNN MARCHIONE
This Monday, April 6, 2020 file photo shows an arrangement of hydroxychloroquine pills in Las Vegas. According to a study released on Tuesday, April 21, 2020, the malaria drug widely touted by President Donald Trump for treating the new coronavirus showed no benefit in an analysis of its use in U.S. veterans hospitals. There were more deaths among those given hydroxychloroquine versus standard care, researchers report. ( Hydroxychloroquine made no difference in the need for a breathing machine, either.
Researchers did not track side effects, but noted hints that hydroxychloroquine might have damaged other organs. The drug has long been known to have potentially serious side effects, including altering the heartbeat in a way that could lead to sudden death.
Earlier this month, scientists in Brazil stopped part of a hydroxychloroquine study after heart rhythm problems developed in one-quarter of people given the higher of two doses being tested.
Many doctors have been leery of the drug.
At the University of Wisconsin, Madison, “I think we’re all rather underwhelmed” at what’s been seen among the few patients there who’ve tried it, said Dr. Nasia Safdar, medical director of infection control and prevention.
Patients asked about it soon after Trump started promoting its use, “but now I think that people have realized we don’t know if it works or not” and needs more study, said Safdar, who had no role in the VA analysis.
The NIH and others have more rigorous tests underway.
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Marilynn Marchione can be followed on Twitter: @MMarchioneAP
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The Associated Press Health and Science Department receives support from the Howard Hughes Medical Institute’s Department of Science Education. The AP is solely responsible for all content.
(Excerpt) Read more at apnews.com ...
Lets not forget this is the VA.
That place where a veteran can go in for an appendectomy and end up castrated or with a foot amputated instead.
The federal organization that denied the existence of Agent Orange and Desert War Syndrome how how long? Had how many “studies” proving there was no there there with either of those issues?
A federal organization that is known for its incompetence and corruption and little else.
It actually IS a “Controlled “ study. That is what the ANOVA is. They are comparing fairly identical groups with respect to everything but treatment. Which isn’t a “yoked control” but ANOVA is a pretty powerful tool.
ANOVA addresses your every criticism.
>>The AssPress is worse than CNN.<<
No, but it’s more insidious.
CNN is all propaganda all the time now. The AP is straight news most of the time, but that just means that when it does spread propaganda, it’s more effective because people are conditioned to think of AP as an unbiased news source.
“That is a complete fabrication. That is a side affect of perhaps arythomyocin.”
Right on top of spelling, drug names and hydroxychloroquine side effects, I see.
Btw, go tell this guy is he full of SH#$ with his comment about the drug.
https://twitter.com/DrSamGirgis
FRONT LINE
HOT STATE
Sam Girgis, MD
@DrSamGirgis
Physician/ Hospitalist, Asst. Medical Director - Div. Hospital Medicine
@JSUMCNJ
, Asst. Professor of Medicine
@HMHsomSHU
,
@Cornell
@RWJMS
Alumnus
I have posted my finding you petulant, arrogant ass. And no I have f had to tell someone the died of a cold because I have had a death. And my academic credentials are every bit as good as the guy you quote if not better.
It looks like they found over 300 records and those that had HCQ or HCQ+Zithro were put in groups, along with another group that had neither.
But all they found was that HCQ was administered. No dosages, no detail on when the treatment began, or whether a full course of treatment was ever administered. Nothing. Just that the patient’s record showed he got HCQ (or HCQ+zithrow).
And at that time, it was viewed by many as a compassionate use drug, so it was likely administered when the doctor had practically given up hope, as opposed to the non HCQ group where compassionate use wasn’t considered. Why? Maybe because the patient was doing okay (although 11% ended up dying).
All of the above could be true, or none of it, but obviously would affect the results. I suspect it will be torn apart in short order, but the mission is still accomplished. The AP report will be cited over and over from now on regardless what further review concludes.
I am treating CoVId patients who could DIE
I also treat influenza patients who COULD DIE
and patients eith a myriad of diseases who COULD DIE
Scarrrrryyyyyyyy when you add capital letters.
Go find Danny and Travis.
I had to look up the Brazil studies yesterday to combat a twitter poster. I suspect the study being touted was an attempt to maximize complications to discredit the therapy but it could have been stupidity.
For no reason I could discern, the Brazilian study of 81 patients used very high doses, 1200mg/day rather than the standards maximum of 800mg Day 1 & 400 mg/day days 2-7.
The Brazilians had to terminate the study in 6 days after 11 people died and only studied 81pts rather the 400 the study was designed to include.
https://www.livescience.com/coronavirus-chloroquine-study-stopped-early.html
Another brazilian study with standard dosing of HCQ & Azithromycin found that HCQ was effective in decreasing transfers to iCU and improved resolution. 636 symptomatic outpatients, 412 started treatment with HCQ and azithromycinand; 224 refused medications (control group).
Need for hospitalization was 1.9% in the treatment group and 5.4% in the control group (2.8x greater) and number needed to treat was 28(NNT =28).
In those who started treatment before versus after the 7th day of symptoms, the need for hospitalization was 1.17% and 3.2%, respectively.
Conclusion: Empirical treatment with HCQ associated with azithromycin for suspected COVID-19 infection reduces the need for hospitalization(p<0.001).
https://pgibertie.files.wordpress.com/2020/04/2020.04.15-journal-manuscript-final.pdf
You are running into the same rubes that I do when I post on threads concerning the oil and gas business and everyone seems to know a little more about it than I do.
Went to the AssPress propagandist's Twitter feed, and this was the first thing I found.
She wrote her "article" from a DNC/Big Pharma HCQ talking points fax...
She claims to be the "chief medical writer" for the AssPress - and she didn't know the difference between chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine when she "wrote" it.
Went to the AssPress propagandist's Twitter feed, and this was the first thing I found.
She wrote her "article" from a DNC/Big Pharma HCQ talking points fax...
She claims to be the "chief medical writer" for the AssPress - and she didn't know the difference between chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine when she "wrote" it.
I wonder if I could get a job as a “medical reporter”?
No pretense of honesty or integrity anymore
You were telling people they just had a cold when diagnosed with Covid 19.....and that was a LIE. It’s not just a cold. It’s right here on FR where you stated it.
There are plenty of Dr’s who are saying that have had success with this Drug and Plenty that are saying that it did no good.
DO NOT LIE and say it works for everyone.
It doesn’t.
There is still a long way to go to figure this out..and YOU KNOW IT
Its beyond belief
It seems everyone is an expert now who can go to the World-O-Meter Telethon Tote Board and make pretty graphs from their links.
But, but, but. You’re not one of them “real” doctors. You just put people to sleep. And stuff.
Corona virus family are responsible for among other things the common cold. As one of. your ilk threw a fit that its not influenza — that is correct. the family give a cold.
I am not saying it works for everyone. I think it probably should be used as prophylaxis and early on. I am also telling you, you arrogant as, that I have not had a single death in > 30 patients, and that I see improvement in oxygenation and SIRS response, usually within 12 hours of administration...
Stop putting words in my mouth as I am an expert in the field and my opinion is as valid as every other expert in the field, most of whom you have quoted are not experts. I am satisfied that we have a reasonable treatment option...but since you opened the door...
There is strong evidence that the whole virus is far more widely penetrant in populations, that the asymptomatic and mild symptoms are far under reported and that at the end of the day, the death rate will be equivalent to or less than influenza.
I know it ruins your day that you can’t control people or even add meaningful dialogue to the conversation as you are, quite simply, an idiot.
You are no expertise, you are invested in cherry picking data, you are a fear monger, and your opinion is worthless. Is that clear enough for you? If you sense I have little respect for you, you are correct as you have shown your bias and lack of fundamental understanding of many of the issues involved in this topic.
I, and my colleagues are for damn sure tired of every shuck with an opinion but not an education advocating they are correct and the combined education of all of us who are expert are denigrated.
Just go away...
It does seem to have potential. It will be hard to study, imo, from my limited experience in understanding clinical trials tells me because how do you deny certain patients an already approved drug. You’ll have a lot of problems enrolling a control arm; and it’s unethical to deny treatment.
The best case imo is you will get one arm that gets the drug early, and a control arm that gets the drug if the disease progresses e.g. higher temperatures, lower oxygen levels, fluid in lung x-ray etc. Or you will treat the control arm with other drugs, and maybe cross them over if they progress. But with a drug you can get from any doctor or even OTC in some countries it is hard to control unless you literally deny them treatment which would be a horrible thing to do especially if you discover it works very well in a large majority of cases. So best case imo is you will get a muddy set of data.
The combination of HQC + Azythromycin + Zinc has a lot of logic to it. It seems to do several things; alter the blood pH to make the human body a less friendly host for the virus, it knocks out inflammation and infection; and the zinc blocks cell receptors that the virus binds to, slowing its ability to replicate. And that buys one time to build a natural immunoresponse. All this just “theoretical” but that’s the logic (roughly speaking - again I am no expert).
It may turn out that the whole “ventilator” thing was an egregious error. The virus infection in the lungs may be blocking oxygen uptake which of course puts stress on the heart and deprives the organs of oxygen. You can pump air into the lungs all day long, if the oxygen can’t get into the blood supply it is futile. That may be why only 1:3 or 1:4 on ventilators survive. Perhaps other kinds of oxygen therapy are a better course of action.
We’re learning a bit as we go, we will be wrong about a lot of things, we’ll make mistakes. But the battle must continue using all available tools - brochodilators may have some help here too.
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