MHGinTN
My complements to you, as you have tried to bring reasoning/scriptures into a religious difference, although I could do without your juvenile insults. Whereas Elsie/Mark17/aMPU guys usually just bring trash talk/hypocrisy .... and aMPU pretty much only bring vile insults (I think that’s all he has).
After our discussion, I realized that the two most predominant women in the Bible are Eve and Mary. In an interesting parallel, God and a Messenger from God (Gabriel) told both women they would conceive; which I find reminiscent of St.Paul’s statement “For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead” (1Cor 15:21).
I find your view a s-t-r-e-t-c-h that with Eve, God’s use of ‘conceive’ meant DNA, but that Gabriel’s use of the same word meant surrogate. Clearly your trying to fit biblical evidence into the ‘Homoousis’ element of your +4th century Creeds that contain the ‘Doctrine of the Trinity’.
So ... your not going to convince me on that one. But let’s look at your interpretation of John 4:24 (God is Spirit).
Question. Our communication with God is obviously spiritual not physical. When you worship God, does your Spirit leave your Body? Obviously not. If you have both Spirit and Body and communicate from your spirit to God’s spirit .... then Why can’t God also have a body?
In essence, isn’t this scripture (John 4:24) more about communication with God than a statement of God’s being?
Additional biblical evidence:
And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness (Gen 1:26)
using the same words, parallel to: And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, and after his image; and called his name Seth (Gen 5:3)
If God created Adam in his image, and Adam Created Seth in his image .... then it appears God had a Body. (Obviously, Jesus Christ at this time only had a spirit/future body).
One additional thought .... based on Satan’s angels (evil sprits) desperation to get into a body .... any body, even that of a pig (Mat 8:31). There must be something very limiting about being only spirit.....
....there must be something that is better to having both a spirit and a physical body.
When Christ was resurrected he had a glorified physical body where somehow he could be in the physical world and yet not be subjected to physical limitations like gravity/death/communication/mobility.
I suspect that is why he took his resurrected physical body with him to heaven ... it was better.
Next Question: Did God exist before the ‘beginning’?
“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God” (John 1:1)
Obviously, Christ was the ‘Word’
Did God exist before the Beginning? ...or was the “Beginning” spoken of only the beginning of his creations?
Biblical Evidence:
“In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth”. (Gen 1:1)
It appears that the “Beginning” was only the beginning of God’s creation phase.
So ... if God existed before the ‘Beginning’ Did the ‘Word’ exist before the ‘Beginning’?
....or was the ‘Word’ the first of God’s creations in the ‘Beginning’?
“ and aMPU pretty much only bring vile insults”
I quoted your prophet and asked if you believe him?
So... is it vile to quote Joseph Smith, or vile to ask you If you agree with Smith??
Smith said people looking like Quakers live on the moon, with lifespans of 1,000 years.
Is Smith right or wrong teppe??
“ Did the ‘Word’ exist before the ‘Beginning’?
Better question teppe...
Joseph Smith said your heavenly father used to be a man before he became your god.
teppe, do you believe your heavenly father used to be a man that became a god?
Mormon, wearing magic underwear, believes god was a regular human who became a god who had sex with Mary...and has a harem of heavenly mothers to breed... but is just one of an unlimited number of mormonic gods...
Wants to tell Christians they don’t understand the nature of The One God of Scripture.
Read all about it!!!!
Mary certainly was a surrogate, whether her ovum was used or not, since God chose her to bear The Son, not a blood descendant of Joseph. But even that is in question since God could so easily use chromosomes from any descendant from David and or Solomon, and from Eve to Bathsheba, or Ruth, etc.
You and I do not have a single data point upon which to assume God used an ovum from the virgin Mary. In fact, had God used an ovum from Mary, He, GOD, would have defrauded Joseph according to Jewish marriage vows! That you could not reach that conclusion is yet another example of using as axiomatic that which you seek to prove, namely that The Creator God hasDNA which He used to conceive Jesus. God the Father Almighty is a Spirit and must be worshiped in spirit and truth. We really do not know from any evidence where the DNA for the body of Jesus was sourced, BUT we know it was an act of God the Creator. By what means we know not..
The Bible tells you that the message to Mary was she would conceive in her womb. That phrase means a life would implant in her uterine lining. It tells you and me nothing of where the embryo is from or whom is the chromosome donor. All we know is the man Jesus had God's life in His HUMAN SPIRIT in the fullness of God, making Him in Spirit the same as God. A born again member of God's family has the life of God in his spirit, but not in the fullness that IS GOD.
The body is not the soul (behavior mechanism) and the soul is not the spirit. We can deduce that the chromosome origin of the body Jesus occupied was descended from David who was descended from Adam. For all we can guess, God took chromosomes from David and Bathsheba to form the embryo that was Jesus then.
I am afraid you have made an assumption based on zero statement from me: "Clearly your trying to fit biblical evidence into the ‘Homoousis’ element of your +4th century Creeds that contain the ‘Doctrine of the Trinity’." You want to discredit the concept of Trinity but you also want to pin you negative on me, speciously. I do believe God is The Father Almighty, The Holy Spirit evidenced by the Universe remaining in such an astonishing balance, and God in a man, Christ Jesus. Each aspect of the One God is expressed according to what He, God, is doing.
Before the Universe existed, Jesus was, and all that is was made by Him and for Him, as God would take on flesh and dwell among us. That is what the Bible teaches yet your cult does not want to believe The Almighty as God the Father Almighty was never a man who 'evolved' / 'ascended' to godhood. God has ALWAYS BEEN GOD and Jesus said 'before Abraham I am.' The Y side chromosomes may have come from Abraham and the female chromosomes from Sara. we just do not know from anything God has given us.
Let's move on ...
You surmised: "When you worship God, does your Spirit leave your Body? Obviously not." Who told you that the spirit is in the 4D body? In fact, who told you that the soul is in the 4D body? Perhaps it has not occurred to you that there is at least one more coordinate system of space and time which is not the same as the 4D you and I sense!
If I say to you,'Your spirit is attached to your soul, and your soul is attached to your body, that does not place soul or spirit in the 4D spacetime of the physical body. It might be that your body is IN the same location as your soul, but the time for the body is different than the time for the soul, so your body would be 'in' the soul only so far as it can intersect the coordinate system of the soul and spirit.
That same concept was true for when Jesus walked among the disciples. His 4D body was 'in God the Father Almighty' and God The Father Almighty was IN HIM (see John 14). As oblique proof of this, the 'time' of your soul is eternal yet the 'time' of your body is finite. The Time of your spirit is also eternal, and will exist in some where/when eternally, in torment or in the Presence of God. Your body is destined for returning to the elements.
The life that is in the body is in the blood. If your soul was sequestered to that body, when all the blood is gone from that physical house where is your soul and spirit? In some where/when that exists eternally, and in torment for rejecting the so Great Grace of God via Christ Jesus, or in the Presence of the Almighty God Creator. God gives you and me that choice for the aspects which have eternal existence, albeit different where/whens.
You asked, "Why can’t God also have a body?" He does, teppe, and we name that Body Christ Jesus. That body is no longer like yours or mine, it is changed to an immortal living with very special powers body. And the great news is You can have the same type of body, eventually, when Jesus comes for His own at the Rapture.
You asserted as if axiomatic, "Obviously, Jesus Christ at this time only had a spirit/future body." Sorry, once again you are stating as axiom that which you seek to prove. You don't know this from God's word and Joseph Smith could not know this either. You and he have assumed without Word from God. You have not one iota of evidence that The Word Who was with God and was God was a spirit, albeit to be of God and with God Who is a Spirit and must be worshiped in spirit and truth makes The Word GOD. So The Son proceeds from The GOD dwelling in a physical body that was in the fullness of God. After all, His name was prophesied as God With Us.
As to the rest of your Gordian 'Not' I leave you with this fact: God created space and time and the word of God says 'God made, etc., so the word was God even before space and time existed ... and He was made flesh and dwelt among us! He is returning soon to gather His unto Himself and return to The Father's House. Do you know enough of the Bible to know where that House is?
Folks; we've just been called ugly by a toad!
I can't answer for you; but I'll spend the rest of the evening in a corner; whimpering softly.
Hasn't Mormonism filled in these empty spots by now?