Posted on 01/23/2020 9:59:49 AM PST by vespa300
“I don’t know how you can believe in a God who wants to condemn most of the planet to a fiery hell,” Rodgers told Patrick on “Pretty Intense,” as reported by PEOPLE magazine. “What type of loving, sensitive, omnipresent, omnipotent being wants to condemn his beautiful creation to a fiery hell at the end of all this?”
(Excerpt) Read more at dailywire.com ...
“... because if all of Los Angeles is saved, Heaven wouldn’t be heaven, it would be the hell of Los Angeles.etc. etc. “
I don’t get what you’re saying there - could you elaborate a little more? Thanks much.
Well, I think Aaron is having trouble understanding why God has to eradicate sin and sinners from the Universe. As I read the Bible, sin is a mystery, the mystery of iniquity. Like an outside virus, unless it is contained, and ultimately destroyed, it will infect all of God’s creation. And that is reason, using the modern day Sodom called Hollywood or Los Angeles as an example, if God does not eradicate Hollywood, destroy it, burn it up, if God allows Hollywood to live on and give unlimited 2nd chances.......then there is no real Heaven, a place of no suffering, disease, crime, .....etc. Heaven won’t be heaven, it will be hell.
Clearly, this world and all of us are on probation with no 2nd chances once God ends probation. Noah’s ark is a good example. Once the door was shut, those inside could not get out...those outside could not get in. Yet the ark sat there for a week before the rains....giving the hell outside long enough for them to mock God. And then the rains started.....and it was all over. Few are saved.....few be there that find it. Hope this helps....I can’t wait for the new world...I hate this world. Thanks.
I see your and my consciousness as something that is injected into this physical, biological machine we call a human body.
It’s not actually part of this reality. Hence my “Matrix” and “video game” analogies.
The difficulty I think many people have is that they erroneously see Hell as Dante described it: as explicit punishment for things done.
I would suggest instead that Hell is rather a response to what those in it continue to be rather than what they’ve done.
A critical Scripture verse for me is that Christ came to destroy the works of the devil, and sin is the devil’s chief work.
So clearly there most be no sinning going on after the judgement, when sin is finally put down, for if any form of sinning occurred some of the devil’s work would remain.
So let me back up a bit...
The Fall did not result in our parents becoming instantly grossly immoral but instead they lost the holiness in which they had been created. It is a lack of holiness, not a lack morality, that is our collective problem at its most fundamental level.
Imputed holiness as we know it now, as opposed to ceremonial holiness from following the Law, is a new-creation thing, and what those who have it do for it is to be born again, receiving to Holy Spirit. It is the Gospel, and the Gospel alone, that is the final answer to the problem that began back in Genesis.
When we saints are resurrected or translated, when this body of death is finally gone, then our nature will only be one that is holy. This will not be like the holiness of our parents because we will have been moral beings (it was knowing both good and evil, not just knowing evil) before we were remade holy and we know the disaster that morality apart from holiness has been.
With a nature that is holy by grace and a nurture that is moral: we will not again walk down this road mankind has been on.
But for those who are finally the lost their only nature is the sin nature. The intensity of that sin nature will vary from person to person in accordance with how they’ve indulged it in this life, but that nature is by then more a what than a do, it is sadly what they are.
So with thoughts like these I’ve looked at what is described as being part of that final state, the worm and the fire, in terms of what the lost finally are and the requirement that there will be no more sinning. As a result the fire looks to me like an external wrath applied to prevent the lost from ever sinning anew and the worm is the frustration felt by the lost because they are prevented from existing as their nature demands.
This opens the possibility that the fire can be applied precisely in accordance with the strength of the individual sin nature, a weak one requiring but so much wrath, a strong one more still. And being prevented from ever sinning anew likewise staves off the damned ever needing worse that they individually were assigned at the beginning ... or such would be my speculation.
In this way I’m troubled more by the way those in our society trying to essentially vomit up the proverbial apple (kudos to Evan Sayet for that line of thinking), to cease from being moral beings at all as if that were possible, than many other things. Because the sin nature is there they will not, as many seem to imagine, somehow arrive at a world that is just and kind but will instead trend to become as bad as bad can possibly be. That in ceasing to be moral and having or accepting any knowledge of the Lord they indeed must end up depraved.
Which probably entirely explains why I see that the sign that is being given to this generation right now is the sign of Romans 1:18-32.
“The bible is very useful, as described in 2 Timothy 3, but even there it doesn’t say it is “the” word of God...”
“Inspired of God (...theopneustos). “God-breathed.” Late word (Plutarch) here only in N.T.”
https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/rwp/2-timothy-3.html
Seems that would cover it. The breath of God...
It literally means given by inspiration of God. However, it’s talking about “scripture”. What was meant by the word, “scripture” when 2 timothy was penned? Technically, the word simply means “something written down”. And God breathed the breath of life into man when he created Adam.
By no means am I trying to say bibles are worthless and to be ignored. I FIRMLY agree with 2 Tim 3 as I interpret it. I just interpret it differently than some English translation interpreters interpretted it. And I disagree even more with some that add meaning to the phrase as it applies to documents produced after it was.
I’m a firm believer in YOPIO (You’re own interpretation of scripture). But I also believe one should not do it in an intellectual/scriptural vacuum). I need to bounce my interpretations off the interpretation and teaching of other humans. Otherwise, the only parts of the bible I would ever read is the stuff in red letters and where it actually says “God said it”.
But he can still pass better than she can.
From what I gather he’s not a very nice guy, could be wrong, estranged from his family, just things about him seem odd to me
Shhhhhhhh ....., purgatory is where the Catholics get to earn their way to heaven ...
It will be too late at that point to earn anything. Not that anyone can earn heaven.
“It literally means given by inspiration of God.”
Actually, it is “theopneustos”.
“2315 theopneustos (from 2316 /theos, “God” and 4154 /pneo, “breathe out”) – properly, God-breathed, referring to the divine inspiration (inbreathing) of Scripture (used only in 2 Tim 3:16).”
https://biblehub.com/greek/2315.htm
It would literally be “God breathed out”. Not sure how any word could be more explicit, and some say Paul coined the word for this purpose.
FWIW, no one can make another person accept any writing as scripture. It either convinces one it is scripture, or it does not. The Book of Mormon? Read parts of it. I’m not convinced, to put it mildly. The Apocrypha? Read it. Not convinced.
In that sense, it is meaningless to argue over something qualifying as scripture. If someone accepts it, they can act on their belief. One can make arguments that X is justified as being scripture, but one cannot make anyone else ACCEPT it as scripture.
Yep. The real question is not “what does ‘God breahted’ mean”. The real question is, what specific written words was he talking about when he used the word, “scripture”. I believe he was probably talking about the Septuagint (often quoted word for word in the original NT) as well as many “non-canonical” writings available at the time.
To me, the important thing to take from it is that one should read what others have to say about it and prayerfully make up your own mind. And that means asking for wisdom and discernment to know when you are reading baloney. It’s a form of praying for wisdom.
No Mr. Rogers... He doesn’t want to condemn the world, He wishes to save it.
He loves us so much that He made it a gift that requires nothing on our part to receive other than acknowledging who He is and what He has done... He loves us so much, He even sent His Sin to die in our place.
For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son... that whoever should believe in Him shall not perish but have eternal life.
“Shhhhhhhh ....., purgatory is where the Catholics get to earn their way to heaven ...”
Shhhhhhhh ......Protestants are so dumb they think Catholics believe they can earn their way into Heaven in Purgatory.
When you imply moral superiority over God, the Author of all things and Time itself, by finding fault with His conclusions you have failed the test of humility. In my life there has been one and only one reason I have suffered and believed: Because God knows things I don’t and can do things I cant.
God did and does in fact reject his creation when it turns away from Him.
Leftist malign God for the penalties He assesses, But IMAGINE the hell leftist would happily condemn us to for merely disagreeing with THEM!
Aaron is saying what the serpent said to Eve in the garden... “God doesn’t really mean that does He?”
You are right. If sin is a minor matter and whatever anyone believes is OK, then why did Christ have to suffer such a terrible penalty for save His people?
OK, vespa300. That helps. You ark analogy makes some sense. Thanks.
Your comment; “There is either Hell or Heaven. There is no “purgatory”.
Just another false teaching by protestants.
I realize that you haven’t written or studied the Bible for 2000 years.
Do some research and you might find it. Obviously, the word is not in the Bible , but the concept is.
For every sin, punishment is due. The reality of Purgatory ensures that those that fail to do penance on earth are not better off than those that do.
The ancient apostolic practice of praying for the dead is itself evidence of the state of Purgatory.
I've been studying the Bible since I was a teenager which is going to be longer than most Roman Catholics.
Do some research and you might find it. Obviously, the word is not in the Bible , but the concept is.
I have. The concept is not in Scripture.
For every sin, punishment is due. The reality of Purgatory ensures that those that fail to do penance on earth are not better off than those that do.
Rome is seemingly ignorant of what happened on the Cross. Christ took our punishment for our sins....all of it.
He took those decrees against us and nailed them to the cross.
The ancient apostolic practice of praying for the dead is itself evidence of the state of Purgatory.
Based on a practice by Jews from the un-scriptural Apocrypha.
This concept is not witnessed in the New Testament and contradicts the New Testament.
And inasmuch as it is appointed for men to die once and after this comes judgment, Hebrews 9:27
There is no purgatory to be punished for your sins to be made clean enough for Heaven.
Either the shed blood of Christ is sufficient to cleanse from all sin or it isn't.
Your comment:I’ve been studying the Bible since I was a teenager which is going to be longer than most Roman Catholics.”
So 50 years plus that one has studied protestant teachings vs. 2000 years since Jesus authorized His Church, the Catholic Church “ I will give you the keys of the kingdom of Heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.” Matt 16:18-19
Perhaps following false teaching there is no need for Purgatory.
Your comment: “I have. The concept is not in Scripture.”
Are you sure that you have an open humble mind to understand God’s Truth?
The Lord “disciplines us for our good, that we may share in His holiness.”
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