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Here is how a Senate trial after impeachment works
www.history.com ^ | 12.5.2019 | crz

Posted on 12/05/2019 4:40:11 PM PST by crz

What happens in the Senate after the House sends impeachment to the Senate


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: civicslesson; impeachment; senatetrial
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Note to those who have questions.
1 posted on 12/05/2019 4:40:11 PM PST by crz
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To: crz

Democrats know nothing of civility or rules. They cheat and lie as a daily part of life.


2 posted on 12/05/2019 4:43:32 PM PST by devane617 (Kyrie Eleison, where I'm going, will you follow?)
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To: devane617

This wont be in the house.


3 posted on 12/05/2019 4:49:38 PM PST by crz
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To: crz

Question to you lawyer types. Is discovery allowed in the senate trial?


4 posted on 12/05/2019 5:13:11 PM PST by crz
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To: crz

“Senate Can Change All the Rules

The proceedings and customs of the Senate impeachment trial can be changed at any time. The Senate, with its “sole power” to try impeachments, can vote by a simple majority to change almost all of the rules. In fact, if it wanted to, the Senate could refuse to vote on articles of impeachment entirely and simply dismiss the case. In the two previous presidential impeachments, however, that has never happened.”


5 posted on 12/05/2019 5:14:11 PM PST by Openurmind (The ultimate test of a moral society is the kind of world it leaves to its children. ~ D. Bonhoeffer)
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To: Openurmind

That is correct, but, it goes to the floor for a simple majority vote.

I will bet, that some democrat after a few days of the case gets nervous, he/she puts forth a motion on the floor to dismiss.


6 posted on 12/05/2019 5:18:14 PM PST by crz
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To: crz

except for the enumeration of the three requirements of a trial in the Constitution, the rest of the article is total bullshit ... the Senate majority establishes any and all rules of the trial and are not bound by what past Senates did ... period ...


7 posted on 12/05/2019 5:32:23 PM PST by catnipman (Cat Nipman: Vote Republican in 2012 and only be called racist one more time!)
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To: catnipman

You didnt even read the GD article did you?


8 posted on 12/05/2019 5:38:44 PM PST by crz
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To: catnipman

“Senate Can Change All the Rules

The proceedings and customs of the Senate impeachment trial can be changed at any time. The Senate, with its “sole power” to try impeachments, can vote by a simple majority to change almost all of the rules. In fact, if it wanted to, the Senate could refuse to vote on articles of impeachment entirely and simply dismiss the case. In the two previous presidential impeachments, however, that has never happened.”

You see..all you would have had to do is read the thing. But you did not.


9 posted on 12/05/2019 5:40:36 PM PST by crz
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To: crz

First, the House presents their case.

Then the Senate must stop laughing long enough to reject it.


10 posted on 12/05/2019 6:25:01 PM PST by OrangeHoof (The Democrats - Unafraid to burn in Hell.)
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To: crz

no, but i made you waste a shitepile of time telling me what i already knew: namely i didn’t read the whole article ...


11 posted on 12/05/2019 7:45:45 PM PST by catnipman (Cat Nipman: Vote Republican in 2012 and only be called racist one more time!)
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To: crz

Actually, the Senate should change all the rules in their favor like the House did.


12 posted on 12/05/2019 8:01:46 PM PST by jospehm20
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To: catnipman

I doubt you knew anything.


13 posted on 12/05/2019 9:00:56 PM PST by crz
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To: crz

“if it wanted to, the Senate could refuse to vote on articles of impeachment entirely and simply dismiss the case.”

This is the huge fact that so far they are not mentioning. They are trying to say that they have to go through with a full trial in the Senate when they can actually just vote to drop it. Mitch is already saying “we can’t dismiss it, and have to have a trial” when that is apparently not true.

My biggest worry is that Justice Roberts goes full Schiff face Hitler dictator only allowing testimony and evidence from one side like we have been seeing so far. Will he have the sole power to manipulate and railroad this thing through one sided in the Senate also? We already know his impartiality, fairness, honesty, and integrity has been compromised. So if he has the power to “allow or disallow” testimony, questions, or evidence like any other trial judge does this could get real ugly real fast.


14 posted on 12/06/2019 4:56:32 AM PST by Openurmind (The ultimate test of a moral society is the kind of world it leaves to its children. ~ D. Bonhoeffer)
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To: Openurmind

There are at least three ways to asses what the Senate can do when presented with Articles of Impeachment.

One is a good faith interpretation of what the Constitution expects. E.g., a good faith application of the constitution would not allow the House to do what it is doing. But a good faith application of the constitution requires the Senate to conduct a fair trial.

Another is a “living constitution” or twisted application of the constitution. It doesn’t say “the Senate must conduct a trial,” so the Senate can just ignore the presentation of articles.

And a third is the realpolitik analysis. What does the public expect, what will the public accept, and what is the best path for the personal objectives of the Senators (which is generally not the same as what is best for the country).

The third path is the one always taken. Any rhetoric to the contrary is BS designed to foll the public. None of these clowns in is public service for anything but their own enrichment.


15 posted on 12/06/2019 5:05:09 AM PST by Cboldt
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To: crz

The Senate and Impeachment Dynamic…

Posted on  by 

As the House impeachment of President Donald Trump becomes more of a forgone political conclusion it’s worth considering what terms and conditions Senate Leader Mitch McConnell will extract in order to preserve a Trump Presidency.

Most political pundits will not correctly outline the status of the possibilities, because most political pundits are willfully blind to the structure of the McConnell Senate.

First, McConnell doesn’t care about holding a majority position in the Senate.  Whether he is a majority leader or a minority leader doesn’t matter to McConnell. In fact McConnell’s political skill-set does better in the minority than the majority.

The preferred political position for Mitch McConnell is where he has between 45 and 49 republican Senators, and the Democrats hold the Majority with around 55.  Of course with Reid’s retirement, this would now be with Majority leader Chuck Schumer holding office.

Why does McConnell prefer the minority position?

The answer is where you have had to actually follow Mitch McConnell closely to see how he works.   When the Majority has around 52 to 55 seats, they need McConnell to give them 8 to 9 votes to overcome the three-fifths (60 vote) threshold for their legislative needs.  It is in the process of trade and payment for those 8 to 9 votes where McConnell makes more money, and holds more power, than as a sitting Majority Leader.

The 60 vote threshold, and McConnell’s incredible skillset in the minority, is where he shines.  Each of the needed votes to achieve sixty is worth buckets of indulgence to the minority leader.  This is why McConnell never changed the Senate rules for legislative passage.

Except for budget passage (reconciliation); and McConnell being forced by intransigence in the era of Trump resistance to change the judicial vote threshold to 51; McConnell would never consider changing the legislative threshold to a simple majority because it would be removing his favored position.  A simple majority vote is adverse to his interests; that’s why he retained it during his reign as majority leader; as did Harry Reid before him.

The vote selling to the 60 vote threshold in the Senate is where the UniParty operates; and where the status of maximum financial benefit for the minority exists.

Currently, as majority leader, McConnell needs to purchase eight or nine votes for each legislative priority.

Mitch McConnell doesn’t like being the purchaser, he prefers being the vote seller where his skill-set as a broker really shines.  McConnell is much better at extracting terms for his vote sales, than being the purchaser for the votes of an intransigent minority wing. This is why the current Senate doesn’t pass many bills.

If Democrats were in the majority, and McConnell was the minority leader, we would see much more legislation pass because Schumer is a more well financed buyer (K-Street) and McConnell is a much better seller.  Whenever we have this minority dynamic it always leaves people confused because few really watch what McConnell is doing.

McConnell takes his favorite twenty controlled GOP senators and brokers their votes on an ‘as needed’ basis.  The eight to ten senators he selects each time get compensated in the process.  McConnell rotates the financial beneficiaries on a bill-by-bill basis.  As a consequence each of the 20 or so McConnell senators gets quite wealthy over time, and McConnell gains additional power and influence.

If any of the republican Senators attempt to disrupt this UniParty business model McConnell excommunicates them from the legislative process; the best reference for the ‘incommunicado’ approach is former U.S. Senator Jim DeMint (R-SC).

Additional references for how McConnell operates this scheme as the Minority Leader can be found in the Corker-Cardin amendment which allowed the Iran nuclear deal/payments under Obama; and/or the “fast track” Trade Promotion Authority deal for TPP passage, again for President Obama’s maximum benefit.   In these examples McConnell worked with Harry Reid to flip the vote threshold from votes to approve, to votes needed to deny.

Within TPP Minority Leader Mitch McConnell was again working on the priorities of U.S. Chamber of Commerce President Tom Donohue.   McConnell and Donohue have been working together on UniParty trade and domestic legislative issues for around twenty years. It is well established that Senate Leader Mitch McConnell has one major career alliance that has been unbroken and unchanged for well over two decades. That alliance is with the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, and specifically with CoC President Tom Donohue.

CoC President Tom Donohue represents Wall Street interests and supports: all multinational trade deals, open-border immigration policies, amnesty legislative constructs, and all of the issues that have generally irked common-sense GOP voters for the same period of time. [SEE HERE and SEE HERE].

Tom Donohue is the biggest lobbyist spender in DC every year, by a mile.

To remind ourselves how Minority and Majority Senator McConnell took down the threat of the Tea Party revisit these old articles CNN Part I and CNN Part II  both showcase how McConnell works.   Then do some research on how McConnell worked with Haley Barbour in Mississippi [SEE HERE].

So the reason for outlining this Senate dynamic is simply to remind everyone that with a Senate impeachment trial coming up, it’s not the 2020 campaign to hold a majority in the senate that matters to Mitch McConnell.  If McConnell can rid himself of Tom Donohue’s nemesis, President Trump, and simultaneously return to his preferred and more lucrative position as minority leader, he would be quite happy.

The first opportunity for leverage over the White House will come in the shape of the Senate “rules of impeachment”.  The senate will have wide latitude in how they set-up the processes and procedures for the trial – and McConnell never misses an opportunity to leverage a “get” from his senate position.

So what will the White House need to give McConnell… or what will McConnell’s ask be, in order to protect the office of the president?  Here’s where you have to remember Tom Donohue and the Wall St priorities.

McConnell (subtext Donohue) would prefer the confrontation with China be eliminated and the tariffs dropped.  Is that too big an “ask”?  Would the White House sell/trade McConnell a China deal for better impeachment terms?

All of these are questions worth pondering now, because there’s no doubt they are being discussed amid those in DC sitting on the comfy Corinthian wing-backs and gleefully rubbing their hands around a well polished mahogany table….

….There are trillions at stake !

 

16 posted on 12/06/2019 5:17:08 AM PST by Bratch (IF YOU HAVE SELFISH IGNORANT CITIZENS, YOU ARE GOING TO HAVE SELFISH IGNORANT LEADERS-George Carlin)
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To: crz
Question to you lawyer types. Is discovery allowed in the senate trial?

It's a great question if ANY Constitutional protections for persons accused of crimes apply in this context.

This is not an Article III proceeding (even though the Chief Justice of the United States presides).

The sole power to try all impeachments is granted to the Senate in Article I §3, and the power of the Senate to make its own rules is granted in Article I §5, so it's not up to lawyers to answer your question but rather up to the Senate.

17 posted on 12/06/2019 5:25:25 AM PST by Jim Noble (There is nothing racist in stating plainly what most people already know)
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To: Cboldt

I agree. The thing that bothers me is because of these political aspects and Roberts presiding, in no way is it all settled “without anything to worry about” when it goes to the Senate like people think it is. The right thing to do would be nip it in the bud and just be vote to dismiss as soon as it gets there and be done with it. But I don’t trust even Mitch and the Republicans to actually do the right thing. I have a feeling they are going to open the door for another one sided circus to happen in the Senate too.


18 posted on 12/06/2019 5:32:48 AM PST by Openurmind (The ultimate test of a moral society is the kind of world it leaves to its children. ~ D. Bonhoeffer)
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To: Openurmind

Roberts won’t have any real power. He’s just a figurehead to rap knuckles if a Senator speaks out of turn.

I don’t see any way the Senate votes to remove, but I expect a majority (more than 50, fewer than 67) to vote to remove.

I expect the senate process will be slightly biased against Trump (limit number of witnesses), in part because the people in charge (many of which are members of the GOP) want the GOP to return to the regular status of minority party.

They also want to damage Trump, but not remove him. The damage has to be done with subterfuge, not associated with open action by the GOP, but instead by passive/aggressive conduct. You notice the GOP (other than the Freedom Caucus) doesn’t much stick up for Trump.


19 posted on 12/06/2019 5:49:06 AM PST by Cboldt
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To: Cboldt

“Roberts won’t have any real power. He’s just a figurehead to rap knuckles if a Senator speaks out of turn.”

That is how it was supposed to work in the house also if Schiff and Nadler had any true integrity as committee chairmen. But look at how it has played out, all moral sense of fairness and defense was completely obliterated with examples of human immorality we have never seen before in history. I am truly worried Roberts will absolutely follow suit if he is given any powers to do so. Then the Republicans can just blame it on Roberts and take the heat off themselves for the “so called”... “unfortunate” end results.


20 posted on 12/06/2019 6:04:52 AM PST by Openurmind (The ultimate test of a moral society is the kind of world it leaves to its children. ~ D. Bonhoeffer)
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