[Kalamata]

>>Kalamata: "Real scientists were not the target of James Tour’s lecture."
>>Joe the Science Denier says, "Real scientists will take Tour's claims of "impossible" as challenges for future research."

Fools will. The wise know that it is God that gives life.

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>>Kalamata: "Charlie Darwin’s theory is so shady the evolutionism cult must appeal to lawyers and judges to browbeat the opposition into accepting it."
>>Joe the Science Denier says, "Your word "shady" describes efforts of anti-evolutionists to describe alleged "intelligent design" as anything other than theological Creationism. I agree that both should be taught in public schools, but as theology, not science.

If the schools and parents object to having the religion of evolution rammed down the children's throats, you can always send in the federal troops.

I seem to recall that "scientists" who clung to the pagan philosophies of Ptolemy and Aristotle in the days of Galileo, also required the assistance of the sword of the State to "stay in business".

I just recalled an organization titled Alliance for the Separation of School and State. That is long overdue.

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>>Kalamata: "Kalamata: "Your heros are promoters of the global warming scam: Michael Shermer:"
>>Joe the Science Denier says, "So, does this mean you believe Shermer is wrong about the Holocaust.

I always question the motives of fanatical antichristian bigots, as well as fanatical promoters of atheism. In the case of Shermer, he is both.

Shermer is wrong in the way he abuses the memory of the holocaust victims to promote his wicked agenda? You, likewise.

For example, in Shermer's book, he marginalized the memory of the holocaust victims by attempting to conflate holocaust deniers with those who are attempting to expose the evil of the very theory that helped precipitate the holocaust in the first place. That, in itself, is a valid reason to question his motives, if not to denounce them.

It is much more likely the holocaust would have never happened, if not for Charlie Darwin's books. It was Darwin who marginalized humans with his insane ape-to-man myth: the same humans who in western civilization almost universally believed to have been made in the image of God, until Charlie came along.

The teaching of ape-to-man evolution eventually became mandatory in German public schools, which made it much easier for the Nazi's to apply their "Racial Science" to naive school children:

"Evolutionary biology had been well entrenched in the German biology curriculum long before the Nazis came to power... All the biology texts published in Germany in the late 1930s and early 1940s needed official approval of the Ministry of Education, and all provided extensive discussion of evolution, including the evolution of human races. Jakob Graf's 1942 biology textbook has an entire chapter on 'Evolution and Its Importance for Worldview.' Therein Graf combated Lamarckism and promoted Darwinian evolution through natural selection. He claimed that knowing about human evolution is important, because it shows that humans are not special among organisms. He also argued that evolution substantiates human inequality. In the following chapter on 'Racial Science' Graf spent about fifteen pages discussing human evolution and insisted that humans and apes have common ancestors." [Richard Weikart, "The Role of Darwinism in Nazi Racial Thought." German Studies Review, 36.3, 2013, p.543]

We cannot ignore the contribution of Darwin's cousin, Francis Galton, and his promotion of the un-natural selection of man, called eugenics:

"I propose to show in this book that a man's natural abilities are derived by inheritance, under exactly the same limitations as are the form and physical features of the whole organic world. Consequently, as it is easy, notwithstanding those limitations, to obtain by careful selection a permanent breed of dogs or horses gifted with peculiar powers of running, or of doing anything else, so it would be quite practicable to produce a highly-gifted race of men by judicious marriages during several consecutive generations. . . I conclude that each generation has enormous power over the natural gifts of those that follow, and maintain that it is a duty we owe to humanity to investigate the range of that power, and to exercise it in a way that, without being unwise towards ourselves, shall be most advantageous to future inhabitants of the earth." [Francis Galton, "Hereditary Genius: an inquiry into its laws and consequences." MacMillan & Co., 1869, Intro., p.2]

Darwin himself was caught up in the "euphoria" of un-natural selection:

"I have only read about fifty pages of your book (to the Judges),1 but I must exhale myself, else something will go wrong in my inside. I do not think I ever in all my life read anything more interesting and original. And how well and clearly you put every point! George, who has finished the book, and who expressed himself just in the same terms, tells me the earlier chapters are nothing in interest to the later ones! It will take me some time to get to these later chapters, as it is read aloud to me by my wife, who is also much interested. You have made a convert of an opponent in one sense for I have always maintained that, excepting fools, men did not differ much in intellect, only in zeal and hard work; and I still think [this] is an eminently important difference." [Letter to Francis Galton, Dec 23, 1870, in Darwin, Charles, "More Letters of Charles Darwin, a Record of His Works in a Series of Hitherto Unpublished Letters Vol II." John Murray, 1903, p.41]

[1. Hereditary Genius: an Inquiry into its Laws and Consequences, by Francis Galton, London, 1869. "The Judges of England between 1660 and 1865" is the heading of a section of this work (p. 55). See Descent ofMan (1901), p. 41.]

Charlie was referring to Galton's notion that man's gifts were all hereditary, including his work ethic:

"the combination of high intellectual gifts, tact in dealing with men, power of expression in debate, and ability to endure exceedingly hard work, is hereditary." [Francis Galton, "Hereditary Genius: an inquiry into its laws and consequences." MacMillan & Co., 1869, p.110]

It is not difficult to see how, with only minor extrapolation, the Nazi's were able to take un-natural selection to another "level", breeding only the "fittest" of men to become members of a master race (Aryans, or course), and eliminating all but the slave nations they were to rule over. And don't forget the the other 20th century butchers: Mao, Stalin, and Pol Pot.

It is past time the world is freed from the evil religion of evolutionism.

Mr. Kalamata

[BroJoeK]

Kalamata: ">>Joe the Science Denier says..."

Still Rules #5, #6 & #7, post #272.

Kalamata: "Fools will. The wise know that it is God that gives life."

All of natural science then are "fools", for wishing to learn how God does what He does.

Kalamata: "If the schools and parents object to having the religion of evolution rammed down the children's throats, you can always send in the federal troops."

But in the case of Kitzmiller v. Dover Area School District it was the school board which tried to ram Creationism down the students' throats and the result was voters voted out the school board.

Kalamata: "I seem to recall that "scientists" who clung to the pagan philosophies of Ptolemy and Aristotle in the days of Galileo, also required the assistance of the sword of the State to "stay in business"."

Isn't it odd how memory plays tricks on you?
Galileo was the scientist who discovered things the Church said the Bible didn't approve of.
So it was the Bible-believing Church who tried & convicted the scientist Galileo, and yet, somehow in Kalamata's mind it was the other way around.

How remarkable.

Kalamata: "I always question the motives of fanatical antichristian bigots, as well as fanatical promoters of atheism.
In the case of Shermer, he is both."

So, do you think Shermer was wrong to debunk Holocaust deniers?

Kalamata: "Shermer is wrong in the way he abuses the memory of the holocaust victims to promote his wicked agenda? You, likewise."

So, are you saying, because Shermer agrees with evolution he has no right to debunk Holocaust deniers?

Kalamata: "For example, in Shermer's book, he marginalized the memory of the holocaust victims by attempting to conflate holocaust deniers with those who are attempting to expose the evil of the very theory that helped precipitate the holocaust in the first place.
That, in itself, is a valid reason to question his motives, if not to denounce them."

I have Shermer's year 2000 book debunking Holocaust deniers and it says nothing -- zero, nada -- about other types of deniers.
So I see no reason to question Shermer's motives in attacking Holocaust deniers, do you?

Kalamata: "It is much more likely the holocaust would have never happened, if not for Charlie Darwin's books.
It was Darwin who marginalized humans with his insane ape-to-man myth: the same humans who in western civilization almost universally believed to have been made in the image of God, until Charlie came along."

Sadly, it's not true that Nazis invented anti-Semitism.
Anti-Semitism has been with us for a very long time, in one form or another.
Nazis were far from the first people to murder Jews just for their religious beliefs, what Nazis did was simply apply concepts of mass production to mass destruction of Jews.

In that sense, the Holocaust owed far more to, for example, Henry Ford than to Charles Darwin.

Kalamata quoting Weikart 2013: "Therein Graf combated Lamarckism and promoted Darwinian evolution through natural selection.
He claimed that knowing about human evolution is important, because it shows that humans are not special among organisms.
He also argued that evolution substantiates human inequality."

I agree that Nazis and Communists used Darwin to help dehumanize classes of people they wished to destroy.
But in Stalin's case especially, he was far more influenced by Darwin's atheist contemporary -- Marx's ideas on class warfare.
Hitler too had no need of Darwin to support his own ideas of "herrenvolk" and "untermenschen".
Indeed, Hitler's propaganda was all about ancient Teutonic myths, Wagner & Nietszche, not Darwin's scientific theory.

Kalamata: "It is not difficult to see how, with only minor extrapolation, the Nazi's were able to take un-natural selection to another "level", breeding only the "fittest" of men to become members of a master race (Aryans, or course), and eliminating all but the slave nations they were to rule over. "

Your point here is not entirely untrue, but there is more to this story.
I'll repeat, Nazis didn't need Darwin to justify their ideas of racial superiority because they had a much better example they could easily see and carefully study -- of just how "herrenvolk" should treat their despised "untermenschen".
It was the United States 1920s era South, of course.

Kalamata: "It is past time the world is freed from the evil religion of evolutionism."

I think any science, not just evolution, in the hands of evil people can become a weapon of evil.
As conservatives must constantly remind opponents of the 2nd Amendment: guns don't kill people, people kill people.
Darwin's theory itself killed nobody.