Kalamata:
"A pebble of evidence from that mountain of evidence will do.
Can you not spare us a single pebble?" You'll find tons of evidence at any natural history museum.
See it, touch it, read a book or two.
You'll find as much as you're willing to see.
Kalamata: "I have been to museums of natural history, and there is no evidence for evolution in any of them. "
Just as I predicted!
A denier will look the evidence straight in the face and deny, deny, deny it.
Kalamata: "You foolishly tried to pass off “Whale Evolution” as evidence, which proves you are clueless."
No, you've foolishly denied, denied whale evolution based on very incomplete knowledge of a few scholarly debates.
Kalamata: "Gibberish.
Evolution has never been observed, in any way.
Devolution has, but not evolution."
Short term evolution has not only been observed, it's been directed by humans for tens of thousands of years, beginning with wolves to dogs and aurochs to cattle.
This man-directed evolution has created new breeds, sub-species and even a species.
These observed facts make longer term extrapolations entirely reasonable.
Kalamata: "That proves nothing except there is plenty of evidence of hydrologic sorting and possible liquefaction.
The fossil record shows evidence of a catastrophic, world-wide flood, with increasing terrestriality in the fossil record, from sea to land.
The evidence of marine fossils in the highest layers, world-wide, is enough to cause any real scientist to pause, if not to reject uniformitarianism and Darwinism."
Complete nonsense.
Kalamata: "Okay, you pick any item from that list and explain how it provides evidence for common descent.
Any item."
They all do.
Kalamata: "BTW, is it true that Charlie was a big fan of William Paley?"
It does seem that Darwin the naturalist admired Paley the theologian.
Kalamata quoting Gould: "It is a feature of the known fossil record that most taxa appear abruptly.
They are not, as a rule, led up to by a sequence of almost imperceptibly changing forerunners such as Darwin believed should be usual in evolution... "
I'll take this quote as representative of the others.
If not Gould himself, then certainly others, especially anti-evolutionists, have taken Gould's words to be commentary on the nature of evolution, or lack of evolution.
In fact, he simply states the obvious: if an environment remains constant for, say, millions of years, then life itself will also remain relatively unchanged.
But when environments change, then life must also change/adapt or die -- sometimes slowly, often abruptly.
So "punctuated equilibrium" refers to such "punctuation" as that asteroid at Chicxulub, Mexico, which wiped out the Dinosaurs, not to some special feature of evolution which randomly speeds it up or slows it down.
Kalamata: "Are you claiming the absence of evidence IS evidence?
Now I have heard everything! LOL"
No, just the opposite, I'm saying absence of evidence is not necessarily evidence of absence.
Kalamata quoting Gould: "The extreme rarity of transitional forms in the fossil record persists as the trade secret of paleontology."
Gould was certainly smart enough to understand that both "extreme rarity" and "transitional forms" are matters of definition and interpretation.
Looking at the same data I'd say there are huge numbers of transitional forms and, indeed, that any fossil which can be reliably identified & classified is "transitional" between its ancestors and descendants, if any.
All of life, without exception, is "transitional".
Kalamata quoting Gould: "I wish in no way to impugn the potential validity of gradualism (for all general views have similar roots).
I wish only to point out that it was never “seen” in the rocks."
It's hard to imagine what Gould is talking about when you've seen these transitional fossils, fresh from the rocks:
Kalamata: "Thank you, Charlie.
I rightely reject your entire theory."
But your reasons are 100% theological, not scientific.
Kalamata: "The notion that the earth has been around millions of years is an imaginary construct with no supporting evidence."
And that is a flat-out lie based on your religious beliefs, not science.
Kalamata: "There is no evidence for your conclusion, or that the strata is millions of years old."
More religiously motivated lies.
Kalamata quoting: "When he asked paleontologists if they had any personal knowledge of modern birds found with dinosaurs, he was in for quite a surprise."
In other words, these claims are total hearsay, not confirmed science.
Even one such confirmed observation would be big news.
Kalamata quoting: "The strata shows evidence of rapid deposition of all layers, as would be expected by hydrodynamic sorting and liquifaction.
That explains the virtually flat sedimentary layers, including coal, with little or no erosion and bioturbation in and between layers."
Totally out of context and without provenance.
Perhaps refers to some local conditions, but certainly cannot be extrapolated to mean everything on earth.
Kalamata: "You made that up.
That is called a “just-so” story.
Absent story-telling like that, evolutionism would collapse like cheap construction in an earthquake."
Nonsense, my words are a totally reasonable conclusions based on the fact that no dinosaurs are found above what's called the K-T boundary.
>>You'll find tons of evidence at any natural history museum. See it, touch it, read a book or two. You'll find as much as you're willing to see.
There is not a shred of evidence for evolution in any museum, nor any book.
I am curious as to why you keep trying to send me on wild goose chases, or why you post highly creative artwork based on a few fragmented fossils, rather than showing any real evidence, or even the fossils they are based on..
********************************
>>Just as I predicted! A denier will look the evidence straight in the face and deny, deny, deny it.
Deny what? I didn't deny anything. I told you exactly what I saw.
********************************
>>No, you've foolishly denied, denied whale evolution based on very incomplete knowledge of a few scholarly debates. *
Incomplete knowledge is not evidence. Imaginary constructs based on incomplete evidence is pseudo-science, or, perhaps, metaphysics.
Why did you show the highly-creative animal artwork, rather than the few fragmented fossils they are based on? Are you trying to fool everyone?
********************************
>>Short term evolution has not only been observed, it's been directed by humans for tens of thousands of years, beginning with wolves to dogs and aurochs to cattle. This man-directed evolution has created new breeds, sub-species and even a species. These observed facts make longer term extrapolations entirely reasonable.
That is not evolution. Devolution perhaps, but never evolution.
********************************
[Kalamata wrote] "That proves nothing except there is plenty of evidence of hydrologic sorting and possible liquefaction. The fossil record shows evidence of a catastrophic, world-wide flood, with increasing terrestriality in the fossil record, from sea to land. The evidence of marine fossils in the highest layers, world-wide, is enough to cause any real scientist to pause, if not to reject uniformitarianism and Darwinism."
>>Complete nonsense.
Those are observable features of the geologic column and the fossil record?
I forgot you don't do science. Never mind.
********************************
>>>They all do.
You won't' pick one because you are afraid you will be exposed.
********************************
>>It does seem that Darwin the naturalist admired Paley the theologian.
You got that backwards. Darwin the failed theologian admired Paley the naturalist -- the naturalist who saw design in nature.
********************************
>>I'll take this quote as representative of the others. If not Gould himself, then certainly others, especially anti-evolutionists, have taken Gould's words to be commentary on the nature of evolution, or lack of evolution. In fact, he simply states the obvious: if an environment remains constant for, say, millions of years, then life itself will also remain relatively unchanged. But when environments change, then life must also change/adapt or die -- sometimes slowly, often abruptly.
I see you are still pushing the pseudo-science called: "The absence of evidence IS evidence."
********************************
>>>So "punctuated equilibrium" refers to such "punctuation" as that asteroid at Chicxulub, Mexico, which wiped out the Dinosaurs, not to some special feature of evolution which randomly speeds it up or slows it down.
There is no evidence an asteroid wiped out anything on earth.
********************************
>>No, just the opposite, I'm saying absence of evidence is not necessarily evidence of absence.
The absence of evidence is the absense of evidence. Nothing else. But if you can imagine evidence, then you can prove anything . . . . . in you mind.
********************************
>>Gould was certainly smart enough to understand that both "extreme rarity" and "transitional forms" are matters of definition and interpretation.
You have not read much from Gould, have you.
********************************
>>Looking at the same data I'd say there are huge numbers of transitional forms and, indeed, that any fossil which can be reliably identified & classified is "transitional" between its ancestors and descendants, if any. All of life, without exception, is "transitional".
That is beyond silly.
********************************
>>It's hard to imagine what Gould is talking about when you've seen these transitional fossils, fresh from the rocks:
Gould was simply saying that he observed what Darwin observed, that no gradual transitional forms have been seen in the rocks. After 160 years one would think we would find something. But, so far, nothing.
********************************
>>But your reasons are 100% theological, not scientific.
Your reasons for believing in evolutionism are purely theological, as were my reasons for believing in evolutionism for most of my long life. I never saw any evidence, but I believe it on faith. My reasons for rejecting evolutionism (finally) were purely scientific.
********************************
>>And that is a flat-out lie based on your religious beliefs, not science. . . More religiously motivated lies.
Okay, so prove the earth is millions of years old. Betcha can't.
Your religion will not allow you to admit you are wrong, so the best you can do is throw an aspersion or two, and hope no one notices you are avoiding all challenges.
********************************
>>In other words, these claims are total hearsay, not confirmed science. Even one such confirmed observation would be big news.
Nonsense. It is virtually impossible to get a paper "peer-reviewed" in secular literature without kissing the rings of Charlie Darwin and Charlie Lyell. A more appropriate name for "peer-review" is "PAL-review".
By the way, the M.D. who found bird fossils with dinos in museums and dig sites, is the same person interviewing Gingerich and Thewissen about their fraudulent "whale evolution" scheme.
********************************
[Kalamata quoting]: "The strata shows evidence of rapid deposition of all layers, as would be expected by hydrodynamic sorting and liquifaction. That explains the virtually flat sedimentary layers, including coal, with little or no erosion and bioturbation in and between layers."
>>Totally out of context and without provenance.
You can only avoid so much evidence before people start thinking you have an agenda
********************************
>>Perhaps refers to some local conditions, but certainly cannot be extrapolated to mean everything on earth.
No, the strata is virtually the same, world-wide, even in areas of intense uplift. Note the folded -- not broken -- strata on this mountain range:
Those layers were still pliable when the mountains were pushed up. Those kind of sedimentary deposits happen rapidly, and not over millions of years.
********************************
>>Nonsense, my words are a totally reasonable conclusions based on the fact that no dinosaurs are found above what's called the K-T boundary.
But marine fossils are, some in the closed position.
Mr. Kalamata