If this ever got to SCOTUS, John Roberts would do some weird mental gymnastics and say they’re both good to go.
The “natural born citizen” issue is dead as a doornail. At this point the candidate could be born on Mars of alien parents and qualify.
Hi.
Klayman is right you know.
5.56mm
Harris is an anchor baby because neither of her parents were citizens of this country at the time of her birth. The same applies to Cruz. NOT NBC!
Didn’t stop Obama from running twice. What’s changed?
One is an anchor baby and one born in Samoa..
So what? After two terms of Obama, no one apparently cares. He wasn’t even a naturalized citizen.
Harris is not eligible to be president or VP. Been saying that for a few weeks now.
The fourteen yr requirement was so that Hamilton would have been eligible to be president. That is probably the only reason such an odd number was chosen.
And if, and only if, Roberts were having to rule on it, what would be do?
We need to start calling these people a specific name that defines what they are, that proves they are not natural born citizens.
Maybe the “Alien born citizens” would fit Miss Harris and Miss Gabard?
I was born here to two citizens, so I cant be called an “Alien born Citizen”.
The definition of insanity is repeating the same actions over and over again and expecting different results.
It doesn’t matter. No One in charge cares.
We better come up with something better than this.
They lied? I know I’m a teen, but doesn’t all Dems (and RINOs, too.) lie? I mean I will accept the results of the election...what a lie...Obama lied...Bush 43 lied...
The constitution only says that a person must be a “natural born citizen” to be POTUS. It does not define what that status is. it also does not define “high crimes and misdemeanors” either, but that has not stopped us from impeaching federal officials. Recourse must be had to common law decisions of the SCOTUS and lower courts, as well as constitutional amendments. There is plenty of stare decisis jurisprudence to determine what the courts have defined as a “natural born citizen.”
Wong Kim Ark was the subject of an 1898 SCOTUS ruling involving citizenship. The court held that Wong Kim Ark was a CITIZEN (not a natural born one) by virtue of the 14th amendment, noting that his Chinese citizen parents were lawfully resident within the US at the time of his birth, and completely self supporting.
The 14th amendment was ratified in 1868. It did not exist at the time that Article II was ratified in 1787. The 14th amendment does NOT refer to, or alter the meaning of Article II in ANY way, whatever one thinks that the framers meant it to accomplish.
The SCOTUS has never directly ruled on the meaning of Article II, Section 1, Clause 5 of the constitution with regard to POTUS eligibility. But in SCOTUS cases wherein they have given a definition of what a NBC (or a 14th amendment citizen in the case of Wong Kim Ark)is, Minor vs Haperstatt, Venus Merchantman Case of 1814) they defined an NBC as a person born of TWO, count them TWO citizen parents (the parents don’t have to be NBC) and born in one of the states of the Union, or the territories.
The authors of the 14th amendment, in the Congressional debates on the matter, also defined an NBC in the same manner. Rep. Bimgham and Senator Jacob Howard were the principal authors of the 14th amendment. Here is a quote from Howard which clearly spelled out the intent of the 14th Amendment in 1866, which was to define citizenship. He stated: “Every person born within the limits of the United States, and subject to their jurisdiction, is by virtue of natural law and national law a citizen of the United States. This will not, of course, include persons born in the United States who are foreigners, aliens, who belong to the families of ambassadors or foreign ministers accredited to the Government of the United States, but will include every other class of persons. It settles the great question of citizenship and removes all doubt as to what persons are or are not citizens of the United States. This has long been a great desideratum in the jurisprudence and legislation of this country.”
Until this matter is formally adjudicated by the Court, I will defer to their NBC stare decisis definitions. Tulsi Gabbard, Donald Trump Jr., Kamala Harris, Obama and a host of others were not, are not, and can NEVER be constitutionally eligible to be POTUS.
Whatever one thinks what the meaning of Article II, Section 1, clause 5 is, it is clear that the adoption of the 14th amendment did not alter it in any constitutional sense. How else can you account for the fact that the constitution only specifies for the office of senator and representative citizenship for a period of 9 and 7 years respectively, while the constitution requires the POTUS, to be NATURALLY born, owing allegiance to no other country? That is the ONLY constitutional provision for NBC. Obviously, there is a singular distinction with regard to that office. Under Jamaican and Indian citizenship law, for instance, It is conceivable that Jamaica or India could claim that Kamala Harris, thru her parents, is a citizen who owes allegiance to both of those countries FROM HER BIRTH. It was conferred upon her by those countries citizenship laws, just as valid as our own.
By the way, Ted Cruz (who I admire very much) made a very public demonstration of the fact that he was going to FORMALLY renounce his CANADIAN citizenship. What NATURALLY BORN US citizen has to do such a thing? He was also born in Canada, and is a citizen by virtue of the Immigration and Naturalization Act. A statute that did not exist in 1787 when Article II was adopted.
The framers of the constitution were patriarchs. (Yes I understand that is completely out of tune with modern sensibilities, but nonetheless it is true.) They believed that the citizenship of the FATHER was conferred upon his children. SCOUTUS incorporated in toto the ENTIRE 212th paragraph of Emerich De Vattel’s Law of Nations in their 1814 Venus merchantman case as they defined what an NBC is. Here is the money quote that Justice Livingstone that was cited when he wrote for the majority, “The citizens are the members of the civil society; bound to this society by certain duties, and subject to its authority, they equally participate in its advantages. The natives, or natural-born citizens, are those born in the country, of parents who are citizens. As the society cannot exist and perpetuate itself otherwise than by the children of the citizens, those children naturally follow the condition of their fathers, and succeed to all their rights.”
I suspect the reason that many do not want this issue formally examined is that they wish to foster and enhance the globalist influence on the office of POTUS. The NBC requirement was never intended to be a guarantee of allegiance, but a safeguard against undue foreign influence on the office of POTUS, PARTICULARLY from a father owing allegiance to a foreign sovereignty. The oath of naturalization requires a formal and legal renunciation of any prior national allegiances.
Jennie Spencer-Churchill, known as Lady Randolph Churchill, was a natural born US citizen, and a British socialite, the wife of Lord Randolph Churchill and the mother of British Prime Minister Sir Winston Churchill.
Under US citizenship law at the time of Churchill’s birth, despite the fact that his mother was a NATURAL BORN US citizen, she could not transmit her US citizenship on to young Winston owing to her marriage to a foreign national, Sir Randolph Spencer Churchill, who was Winston’s father. That would not be legally allowed until the passage of the Cable Act of 1922, well after Churchill’s birth in 1874. The Cable Act only confers citizenship, NOT NATURALLY BORN citizenship. It did not refer to, or alter the meaning of an Article II, Sec. 1, clause 5 “natural born citizen” in any way.
Churchill was granted HONORARY US citizenship by an act of Congress on 9 April 1963. It was understood that his birth to a an NBC citizen US mother in Great Britain did not make him a citizen by law.
This is just one more indication of the fact that Trump Jr., Obama, Cruz, Rubio OR Harris can NEVER be constitutionally eligible to the office of POTUS. We need to have this issue finally adjudicated by SCOTUS for the first time in US history, and finally get a definitive answer one way or another.
We have enough naturally born anti-american, anti-constitutional cultural marxists in our country now who aspire to be POTUS. I say let’s eliminate all those who don’t even meet the basic Article II criteria. Winnow the opposition.
It is revealing to note what Clarence Thomas told a House subcommittee that when it comes to determining whether a person born outside the 50 states can serve as U.S. president when he said that the high court is “evading” the issue. The comments came as part of Thomas’ testimony before a House appropriations panel discussing an increase in the Supreme Court’s budget in April of 2017. Thomas said that to Subcommittee Chairman Rep. Jose Serrano, D-N.Y.
After two Obama terms, I think they are terrified of the implications of a ruling based on originalist constitutional intent and interpretation. That does not excuse the cowardice in refusing a grant of certiorari for those who wish to have SCOTUS exercise it’s Article III oversight on this matter.
I recall a story of a shot down Tuskegee Fighter pilot (I think it was from Lt. Col. Alexander Jefferson’s account “Red Tail Captured, Red Tail Free,” but I am not sure) who was interrogated by a German Oberleutnant speaking perfectly accented US English in the Stalag where he was being held.
The airman asked the German officer why he spoke such good English. He explained that he had been brought to the US by his parents when he was 10 years old. He was interned as an enemy alien by the 3rd Reich while visiting Germany by Adolph Hitler’s Declaration of war on the US on Dec 11 1941.
After a brief internment, he said that he had been drafted into the German Army under the German citizenship laws at the time as a VOLKSDEUTSCHE citizen. He fought on the Eastern Front, was wounded and transferred to the Western Front and fought against the Allies in Italy, including US troops. Wounded again, he was sent to the Stalag as an interrogator.
After the war, a charge of treason was considered against him. But the charges were dropped when it was determined that the Germans did have the right to conscript him as a natural born German citizen, under THEIR laws, and that he was a lawful enemy combatant.
Yes, circumstances can certainly dictate when you are subject to a foreign power.
Accordingly, the framers wanted to minimize (not guarantee) the likelihood of undue foreign influence upon the office of POTUS, particularly from a father owing an allegiance to a foreign sovereignty.
I am not claiming that my argument is definitive, but I truly would like to see it adjudicated rather than being ignored, or ridiculed.
Birther threads. Gotta love ‘em.
Women should not be commanding the military under any circumstances...
Citizen is NOT the same as natural born citizen. I cannot believe how some cannot see the difference.
To believe citizen is the same as natural born citizen, is to believe the founders would allow the child of an American woman and king George himself to be president.
If you believe this then you need to do alot more studying of our founding. Until you do this, you will be a millstone around the neck of our great republic.
I didn’t know Klayman was that much of a nutjob.
The question about McCain was whether he actually was born in the Canal Zone. Some have argued that even though his parents were both US citizens that the hospital where he was born was on Panamanian soil. I don't think they're right, but the matter was certainly controversial.
One question involved here is whether the government can acquire territory for the US (Samoa or the Canal Zone) and declare that people born there aren't US citizens -- but it's a moot point when both parents are US citizens.