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To: Team Cuda

I think we agree on most everything and apologize for any confusion.

Sure, you can say secession caused war, but arguably there was no war before Fort Sumter, so I focus on that — Why did it happen?
Lost Causers tell us it was Lincoln’s “war fleet” which forced peaceloving Jefferson Davis to order the fort “reduced”.
But we have a pre-Sumter quote from Davis himself saying, in effect, he intends to start war at Sumter regardless.
Will post that to you later.

A second point I make is the sharp distinction between Reasons for Secession before & after Sumter.
And it’s important to remember that before Fort Sumter states like Virginia refused to secede just over slavery or tariffs or Black Republicans.
But after Sumter Virginia could claim, at least in their own minds, “injury or oppression” as specified in their Constitution ratification.

So Virginia at least had a constitutionally identifiable “necessity” while none of the previous seven seceded states did.

Anyway, must run now, will check back in later.


734 posted on 05/10/2019 8:44:40 AM PDT by BroJoeK ((a little historical perspective...))
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To: BroJoeK
And it’s important to remember that before Fort Sumter states like Virginia refused to secede just over slavery or tariffs or Black Republicans. But after Sumter Virginia could claim, at least in their own minds, “injury or oppression” as specified in their Constitution ratification.

Which is also one of the major reasons Davis ordered the attack on Sumter. He needed North Carolina and Virginia in the confederacy, and he knew that once that once the shooting started, they'd join him. Roger Pryor, a pro-secession Virginia politician made a speech in recorded in the Charleston papers: "As sure as tomorrow’s sun will rise upon us, just so sure will Virginia be a member of the southern confederation. And I will tell you, gentlemen, what will put her in the southern confederacy in less than an hour by Shrewsbury clock--STRIKE A BLOW! The very moment that blood is shed, old Virginia will make common cause with her sisters of the south. It is impossible she should do otherwise."

Jefferson Davis needed war because he needed Virginia.

737 posted on 05/10/2019 9:51:23 AM PDT by Bubba Ho-Tep ("The rat always knows when he's in with weasels."--Tom Waits)
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