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To: rustbucket; rockrr; DiogenesLamp; DoodleDawg; Team Cuda
rustbucket to rockrr: "Do you think the revenue question was not a crucial one for the North and for Lincoln?
If you think revenue was not crucial, I'd like to hear your argument supporting your conclusion."

FLT-bird: "Yankeefa is just not open to anything that contradicts their PC Revisionist dogma - no matter how irrefutable the source."

Every human being in the world is appropriately concerned about their own "revenue question", but very few start a war to solve it.
In 1861 none of the newspaper editorials posted here said, in effect: "let's send a 'war fleet' to Charleston with orders to attack Confederates and start war to solve our revenue question".

One reason should be obvious -- Charleston produced virtually no Federal tariff revenues.
So, if the "revenue problem" was Lincoln's driving concern, then his "war fleet" would go where the money was, i.e., New Orleans.
The same applies even more to Fort Pickens, Pensacola, FL.

Indeed, rustbucket's post #852 above clearly says: "New York Herald of March 14, 1861:

So there's no direct connection anywhere between a president's natural concerns over revenues and Lincoln's actions at Fort Sumter.
The direct connections we do have show Lincoln hoped to trade Fort Sumter for something of value from Virginia, and when that didn't happen, ordered ships to resupply Fort Sumter.

We also have quotes showing Jefferson Davis intended to attack both Sumter & Pickens regardless of what Lincoln did or didn't do.
Was that over some "revenue question"?
No, Davis wanted first, "to relieve our territory and jurisdiction of the presence of a foreign garrison" and second, "other considerations", especially the necessity for war to flip Virginia & other Upper South states from Union to Confederacy.

1,010 posted on 05/21/2019 8:56:47 AM PDT by BroJoeK ((a little historical perspective...))
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To: BroJoeK; rockrr; DiogenesLamp; DoodleDawg; Team Cuda
Every human being in the world is appropriately concerned about their own "revenue question", but very few start a war to solve it.

One of the few was Abraham Lincoln.

In 1861 none of the newspaper editorials posted here said, in effect: "let's send a 'war fleet' to Charleston with orders to attack Confederates and start war to solve our revenue question".

Perhaps, perhaps not. It is clear though that some Northern newspapers recognized the sham that Lincoln was doing. Here are my limited excerpts of a long editorial April 12, 1861 article, "The American Cain," in the Jersey City American Standard newspaper. [The full article can be found here] My bold below is for BJK.

The blind or mad politicians in whose hands are entrusted the administration of our government have at length determined—so at least their own party exponents of the press allege—to initiate war upon our countrymen of the South.

... the government seeks to mask this, its real purpose, by pretending that humanity requires them to succor the gallant Major ANDERSON and his troops, and that an unarmed vessel is to be sent to him with stores and that if it is not permitted peaceably to fulfill its errand it shall be done by force. The measure is a disingenuous feint.

This unarmed vessel, it is well understood, is a mere decoy to draw the first fire from the people of the South, which act by the pre-determination of the government is to be the pretext for letting loose the horrors of war.

No intelligent man will be deceived by the plea, and if blood be shed it will be laid where it justly ought to be laid, at the door of an Administration ...

Excerpts from the Jersey City article can also be found on pages 269-270 of the book, "Reassessing the Presidency" (2001), edited by John V. Denson.

I have posted before the statements of important, involved subordinates of Lincoln (Adams, Meigs, and Anderson) who said that what Lincoln was doing would cause war [Link to my old post 54 ].

Recently I was doing a little research in the Official Records, and I discovered that Major Anderson had wanted his statement about the coming war to be destroyed. It wasn't destroyed because the South Carolinians started intercepting Anderson's mail to Washington once they learned that Lincoln was sending an expedition down. The Official Records list it in Confederate Communications along with Anderson's request to destroy it. Anderson sent two communications, both given the number 96, apparently in separate envelopes, with the instructions to destroy one of them. You can guess which one Anderson wanted destroyed. Here the three communications are with dashed lines that I inserted between them so that they are distinguishable as separate documents. My bold below.

Col. L. Thomas, Adjutant- General:

Dear Colonel: In another envelope I shall send a No. 96, which you will be pleased to destroy.

That God will preserve our beloved country, is the heart-felt prayer of your friend,

R. A.
----------------------------------------------------

No. 96.] Fort Sumter, S. C, April 8, 1861.

Col. L. Thomas, Adjutant-General, Washington, D. C.:

Colonel: I have the honor to report that the South Carolinians have since about noon yesterday been very actively engaged in strengthening their works on Morris Island. I pray that God will avert the storm which seems impending over us, and restore amicable and permanently-pacific relations between the States who still stick to the old Union and those who have formed another Government in the South.

I am, colonel, very respectfully, your obedient servant,

ROBERT ANDERSON,
Major, First Artillery, Commanding.

P.S.—I omitted acknowledging the receipt of the letter from the honorable Secretary of the 4th instant.

[Inclosure No. 3.]

-----------------------------------------------

No. 96.] Fort Sumter, S. C, April 8, 1861.

Col. L. Thomas, Adjutant-General U. S. Army:

Colonel : I have the honor to report that the resumption of work yesterday (Sunday) at various points on Morris Island, and the vigorous prosecution of it this morning, apparently strengthening nearly all the batteries which are under the fire of our guns, shows that they either have received some news from Washington which has put them on the qui vive or that they have received orders from Montgomery to commence operations here. I am preparing by the side of my barbette guns protection for our men from the shells, which will be almost continuously bursting over or in our work.

I had the honor to receive by yesterday's mail the letter of the honorable Secretary of War, dated April 4, and confess that what he there states surprises me very greatly, following as it does and contradicting so positively the assurance Mr. Crawford telegraphed he was authorized to make. I trust that this matter will be at once put in a correct light, as a movement made now, when the South has been erroneously informed that none such will be attempted, would produce most disastrous results throughout our country.

It is, of course, now too late for me to give any advice in reference to the proposed scheme of Captain Fox. I fear that its result cannot fail to be disastrous to all concerned. Even with his boat at our walls the loss of life (as I think I mentioned to Mr. Fox) in unloading her will more than pay for the good to be accomplished by the expedition, which keeps us, if I can maintain possession of this work, out of position, surrounded by strong works, which must be carried to make this fort of the least value to the United States Government.

We have not oil enough to keep a light in the lantern for one night. The boats will have, therefore, to rely at night entirely upon other marks. I ought to have been informed that this expedition was to come. Colonel Lamon's remark convinced me that the idea, merely hinted at to me by Captain Fox, would not be carried out. We shall strive to do our duty, though I frankly say that my heart is not in the war which I see is to be thus commenced. That God will still avert it, and cause us to resort to pacific measures to maintain our rights, is my ardent prayer.

I am, colonel, very respectfully, your obedient servant,

ROBERT ANDERSON,
Major, First Artillery, Commanding.

1,042 posted on 05/21/2019 2:35:42 PM PDT by rustbucket
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