Posted on 04/30/2019 11:51:06 AM PDT by robowombat
“o, was it a “straight line transit through unrestricted waters”
It was a straight line transit, diagonally across the freeway.
“Even if he and the XO were the only competent persons to man the bridge. they don’t call it “Port and Starboard” for nothing!”
Well, I think you’ve arrived at the core of the matter. If the safety of the ship required the CO and XO to stand OOD on port and starboard, then that’s what they should have done.
And if they needed to send the BMOW to go down and drag cooks and yeomen out of their racks to stand lookout, well, when I was one of Remington’s Raiders I stood a lot of deck and engineering watches.
The answer is always to train, inspect and supervise, all the time and in all areas. And get your subordinate leaders to inspect and be watchful too.
I didn't lose any of those young men, even though we were sent on some really dangerous missions (such as fighting a 128,000 acre forest fire in Chelan Washington).
The principles of leadership never change. I didn't get a whole lot of sleep during that year and half but those men were well-trained, competent and ready and I could face all of their parents afterwards.
Yup - and at night with nonfunctioning radars.
Commander Benson may have only had command for one month, but he reported to FITZ as the Executive Officer in November, 2015. The XO is responsible for all training and is traditionally the disciplinarian - he had 18 months to fix ‘issues’.
Your claim that one month ‘was not nearly enough time to remedy long-standing training deficiencies’ actually ignores the fact that HE WAS RESPONSIBLE for ALL those deficiencies as the XO.
Yes, I’ve been an XO on a DDG and yes, I was always on the Bridge during this type of transit. So was the CO.
Regarding the ‘not enough watch-standers’ comment - that’s pure BS. Everybody stood watch on our DDG - Supply Dept., Command Career Counselor, Command Master Chief - every single person attached to our ship was on a watch bill. If there weren’t enough lookouts, then the Ship’s Bosun and all the BM1’s would be standing the watch. That’s a command decision, so it’s unfortunate the FITZ didn’t actually have anybody who could make a tough decision. They failed and Sailors died.
“One of the main things that guided me when I was a battalion commander was that I had 565 young men who were their family’s greatest treasures.”
I hope my son’s leaders while he is in the Corps are equally attentive to their duties.
As I posted shortly after the event, It is my professional opinion (I hold a Coast Guard Masters License) The problem is systemic through out the navy. My last vessel was a FSV or Fast Service Vessel capable of carrying 200 tons of cargo on the deck,65 passengers and large quantities of fuel and water at speeds up to 28 knots. Normally I was the sole occupant of the wheel house. My duties included navigation, radar watch, communication/traffic control and vessel handling. I was also responsible for crew training and supplies. I never felt like I was overwhelmed because I had ability and need to understand and perform all duties with little help. It made me aware of the responsibility and helped me become more aware of our surroundings.
The bottom line was that I did not have to rely on 8 to 10 people in a chain of command to take evasive action in the event of a problem situation. My feeling has always been that a large division of responsibility insures that a certain amount of responsibility is lost.
Thank you for your service and semper fi. I do not believe he should be held criminally responsible. Get your ship ready for sea is a lawful order. By his own written statement his crew ( senior command) has bee previously qualified on at least one other ship. The equipment, based the long version from the same publisher, was in ill repair but functional for Navigation.
By your statements you have had an exemplary career but where is the part where you had to go through something that happened and you weren’t the investigator but the investigated?
As for me, I am just a nobody who did nothing in places that don’t exist.
And the CIWS was not working and the SLQ32
Was secured because the fans were to noisy. And the CO never went to jail which is the discussion at hand. Relieved of command, termination of service because he was the CO and the buck stops there. But going to jail for following a lawful order, is not right.
You are right that somebody in the chain of command allowed standards to be glossed over or faked - and those people need to be identified and held accountable. No question.
But the Commanding Officer is responsible for his command, period.
He has to know his people, his ship’s systems, his mission. He has a host of staff members responsible to him to keep him on top of every potential problem - but he’s the one on the dot and he owns his men’s deaths.
If I had been in his shoes, his useless OOD with have been the Library Officer and nowhere near a position of responsibility.
One of the first and hardest thing to do as a CO is recognize dead wood and get rid of it - fast, before they get somebody killed.
That would be true IF the skipper had training himself instead of the new standard of OJT. The Navy canceled the captain training school - more money for F-35s and DDG-1000 toys that way.
That’s the normal lesbo feuds that endangers all ships but no one talks about it
PC all the Way,
the Navy Way,
Hoooray!
Its always that way when some military disaster strikes:
cover cover,
duck and hide,
nothing to see,
just an accident.
Well, thank you - Semper Fi right back to you. The “nobody that went nowhere doing nothing” sounds like fun..
No, I never needed to be investigated - I am a former enlisted, so when I was commissioned, I knew how things worked - and valued the expertise and talents of my NCOs. If you put the effort into it, you can the tough jobs done well and keep your people alive.
Combat means that all bets are off, but a leader will do everything possible to keep the mission done and his troops survive.
Military careers and the professions within them require talent, dedication, and really intense attention to detail. You have to inspect, test, and inspect some more. You don’t leave anything to chance.
All of the things that happened that night on the Fitzgerald were preventable; all of them. The CO should have known all of them and corrected the problems long before.
If you decide to gain in responsibility in the navy, do it - but don’t use that CO as an example.
In 1986 I was one of three OOD’s on a NIMITZ class CVN, 100,000+ tons combat loaded with 5800 passengers, 3.5 million gallons of JP5, a working airport and a nuclear plant capable of propelling us at speeds in excess of 32 kts. None of the OODs had to rely on anybody to take evasive action - that’s the reason the USN has Officers of The Deck. They are the Captain when the Captain isn’t on the Bridge.
Don’t quite understand where you got the impression an OOD has to rely on ‘8-10 people to take evasive action’. It’s never been that way.
We are saying the same things in different ways and I fully appreciate where you are coming from and I know you feel the same about me. Because that is what brothers in arms means even though we never served together.
I have been involved in two unscheduled encounters with material that was not sea water. Both resulted in investigations. One in particular remains in my memory where I was in control and watched my shipmates before and after. When I read the reports and saw that they were accused of things that I had personally seen with my own eyes weren’t true I became a permanent skeptic when I read reports like the very detailed accounts because I wasn’t there and the lawyer types asking blame before seeking the truth. I don’t mean to offend but that is my personal experience
And I tip my hand in salute you your service and career. BTW. Two of my kids served as well.
If you are still within the age bracket, becoming a officer exposes you to a whole new world. Where before you were responsible for yourself and maybe a few more, once you're commissioned, you're suddenly responsible for 40, then 120, then 535 younger servicemen. It sobers you up fast when you realize that just a small lapse in professionalism could mean death and maiming of those that you are leading.
If you put the hours into it, carefully developing the training and watching it carried out and supervising your officers' inspections and repair any discrepancies, and most of all, letting your troops know that what we're doing is important that you are depending on them, they respond by rising to the challenge, every time.
Yes we are Brothers in Arms at a time when so few want to join us in our mission to protect out country. Makes us value your brothers even more.
“But going to jail for following a lawful order, is not right.”
The thing is, Mariner was right. The safety of the ship was the captain’s responsibility, and he was asleep in his cabin with three incompetents on the bridge, no port lookout, and no starboard lookout.
Further, IIRC, once in extremis, the OOD came left.
If we still had Surface Warfare Officer School, she would have known that you *never* come left to avoid a collision.
Never?
Never.
But what if that’s the only way to avoid the collision?
Come right.
But what if God himself appears and tells you to come left?
Come right.
But...
Right.
Well, what if...
Come right!
When I heard she came left, I almost pickled one off.
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