Posted on 04/21/2019 5:37:11 AM PDT by Kaslin
I do believe the shroud is real, and I have no problem with it. About the carbon dating, it’s very possible that when they actually did this testing they deliberately took the piece from the newer section knowing that it would not be an accurate dating. It would make sense if the people testing it we’re just not believers and didn’t want it to be true or at least didn’t want others to believe that the shroud is as it is claimed to be.
https://youtu.be/ycReqkip7r8
I am not a member of any church, but I believe in the only event in all of history which really makes a difference for all of eternity. He Lives.
My thoughts exactly...
The cloth was tested and found to contain Bilirubin, typically associated in the human body as a result of stress to the individual as in what Christ was put through prior to and during his crucifixion
As to the edges that were allowed to be tested they were not from the original cloth but added to it during repairs centuries ago.
I have studied this for some time and the authenticity of the Shroud to me is unquestioned. I am not a Catholic and my role as an Evangelist and child of God requires me to examine items such as this. The alignment of the scriptural description of the event as well as the images left on the shroud, their nature and depth of images that cannot be explained in a “painted” image that leaves no pigment of any type as some have posited by a “painter” even Da Vinci or others.
Choose your own path, but the people who have done the analysis were the best in the world and had no restrictions on conclusions they reached after exhaustive examination of it.
I have made my choice, this is clear evidence of being the burial shroud of Jesus Christ
Choose for yourself, if you are a “doubting Thomas” then seek the truth
Choose wisely
Shroud of Turin Ping!
If you want on or off the Shroud Ping List, Freepmail me.
I know that is what I said was the part tested should have been the ORIGINAL cloth, not the replacement.
So then, if I understand your meaning as you gleaned it from the Greek, as Christ arose, he was in a transmaterial state and rose “thru” the burial shroud and face cloth back into a material state, apparently clothed, but still with wound scars(Thomas later thrusting his hand into Jesus side where the spear wound was). His burial shroud and face cloth lay where he had been.
His statement to Mary...”Touch me not for I have not yet been glorified by the Father” was interesting as well. For one must also surmise that had he been already thus glorified, Mary could then have touched him. (as we later find that Thomas and others could touch him and that he could eat fish and drink without the food leaking through him).
BookMark
It was funny...
There is absolutely ZERO evidence for Kenyon’s assertion of a form fitting hardened shell being used in Jewish burials at any time. Most Jewish families could not afford a shroud at all and merely used a small cloth to cover the face. They also did not use major cloth binding beyond what was necessary to keep the arms and legs from flopping akimbo once rigor mortis passed.
The Jews did not want the skeleton to be entangled with lots of putrid cloth when, a year later, they would return and collect the remaining bones and reverently throw them in the central ossuary of the tomb with the bones of all the family’s ancestors. This was the "gathering unto one’s ancestors." An new affectation among rich Jews of the 1st Century was the adoption of individual ossuary boxes for one’ bones, but this was by far the exception rather than the rule among Jewish burials.
What it is known they did do is bind the jaw to keep the mouth closed in death by using a rope or twisted cloth (in this case a "sweat cloth," the Sudarium), under the chin, under the beard and forelocks, up and over the crown of the head where a knot would be tied. The face would be covered by the cloth of the over all Shroud or another small cloth. According to Jewish burial practices of the times written in the Mishnah, the elaborate code of life conduct Torah marginalia established for Jews by rabbinical Torah interpretation, they’d also bind the body at the wrists and ankles and place a weight on the eyes to keep them closed, often a potsherd, but in some cases a small copper or silver coin (a custom adopted from the Greeks).
Kenyon elevated his whole cloth speculation based on nothing but his imagination to "fact," when there was no real scholarship to back it up.
You believe in Him. Brother, you are a member of the church that counts, the body of believers, the Ekklesia leaving soon so the earth can be ‘tested’. See you in the clouds!
Another diversion away from the Victorious Risen Christ over death itself......
The Catholic Church has not given permission to do so. . . And there is another problem. In 2002, in a misguided, non-scientific "restoration" of the Shroud, the Church allowed a non-scientist fabric specialist, madame Mechtild Flury-Lemberg, to direct the "conservation-restoration. She proceeded to vacuum, stretch, cut away the according to her "still-burning" charred margins of the 1532 fire, remove wrinkles, and wash, the Shroud. She then recommended the Shroud be stored in a special hydro-carbon atmosphere for a time to kill any possible bacteria that might be eating the fibers. This had the effect of contaminating the molecules of the cloth with newly added carbon of unknown isotope mixture and age. This has precluded any more C14 testing.
However, an unauthorized C14 test was performed in the late 1990s on a thread removed from the Shroud during the 1978 STURP examination. This thread was from the main body of the Shroud and there is no question about it being authentic original Shroud material and not part of a reworn patch which was the failure point of the 1988 C14 test sample. Since the test sample was small, the confidence range was broad. The results returned were mid-first Century, +/- 95 years.
This coincides with the calculations made by Dr. Harry Gove, the inventor of the C14 technique used by all three C14 labs in the 1988 Shroud test, When asked what age the original Linen material would be if mixed with the observed contamination of ~60% newly added 17th Century dyed cotton threads to the original undyed Linen threads of the Shroud sample. When Gove finished his calculations, he said “Give or take 100 years, First Century."
Incidentally three independent scientists working separately to falsify the reweaving hypothesis explaining the 1988 C14 Shroud dating, using three different techniques, to their surprise actually proved the 1988 sample truly was a rewoven patch. In addition, three independent statistical analyses of the results of the three laboratories’ individual results from the four samples cut from the same original supposedly homogeneous master sample cut from the Shroud, have conclusively shown the samples were not in fact homogenous at all, and show the age results are indistinguishable from test samples cut from completely different sources, with age results with confidence ranges never overlapping even adjacent samples, I.e., they either could not be from the same source (which they were) or they were hopelessly contaminated with carbon of differing isotopic mixes.
Let’s remember most of all Him who went forth from that empty tomb after having left whatever evidences of having been there He deemed fit.
That’s how (1) we are being imbued with power over sin; (2) we have a promise from God to live with Him forever. Only a risen Christ can do this, folks. “Made like Him, like Him we rise; Christ has opened Paradise.” — John Wesley
He rose. So shall we.
The Shroud is a mystery in the larger scheme of things. I leave these controversies to the care of God. It with its images could easily be real; but it wouldn’t change what I already believe from the word of God through the bible about Christ. None of the gospels talk about the graveclothes other than that they were found folded in the vacant tomb. They have served their use in enfolding the Master of both death and life. The Lord surely wants our worship of His risen self over any veneration of a rag, even one with a supernaturally made mark.
It was an angel with a “countenance like lightning” that announced Jesus’ resurrection. That would be one brilliant face. Could this angel have “scorched” the image onto the graveclothes? When the Holy Spirit helps people, frequently He does it through angels; and angels were known previously to have helped Jesus.
If the Shroud gives people faith in our risen Lord, excellent.
The only danger being if people start believing in the relic over the Lord that it (purportedly) touched.
(Not saying it is or isn’t genuine, just that I don’t think there’s enough evidence to know for certain.)
If physics and radioactive photography are your thing, I recommend Shroud 2019. It’s hard to follow, starts very slow, I only understood and saw half of what they were talking about but it made a very deep impression on me.
“E. W. Kenyon explained that when Jesus was prepared for burial,according to Jewish tradition at the time, he was wrapped in clothe that had a solution applied to it that hardened. They did not have time for the head, which is why a cloth was placed over his face.”
Then why were the women going to anoint His body with spices?
“Most Jewish families could not afford a shroud at all and merely used a small cloth to cover the face.”
First of all, calm down so you won’t stroke out.
Second, the account plainly states that Nicodemus brought a hundred pounds mixture of myrrh and aloes, and then they wrapped the body in clean linen “with the spices, as is the burial custom of the Jews.”
It would take a lot of cloth to contain a hundred pounds of spices.
I am sure that the poor Jews did not go to the same length as in this case, but all the Jews were not poor and not all Jews were buried in a rich man’s tomb.
“Then why were the women going to anoint His body with spices?”
The account says that had already happened. They were going their to finish the process.
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