Posted on 04/15/2019 7:47:59 PM PDT by bitt
I doubt you have any idea of the history of the crown of thorns, of the Sainte Chapelle, or of Notre Dame. You seem to enjoy casting doubts out of hand.
You may admire him but I do not.
I never heard of it before today. What I learned, I learned from sources like Wikipedia. I formed my opinion there, not ‘out of hand.’
I’m sorry but I find your comments laughable.
Protestants and Catholics have been fighting about relics since before Luther.
‘I prefer to give weight to the probability the relic is real rather than dismiss it out of hand...and very rudely by you, I wish to state.’
however rude he may have been (I’d say flippant, instead), he is correct in his point; the burden of proving a claim lies with the claimant, not with the skeptic...
And your Uncle Jack and his horse; too!
1. Logic
2. Why save it when placing the cloths around Jesus' head?
3. It was a mocking insult at the time.
4. How long does it take before the FIRST 'relic' shows up in the record?
5. the 'Shroud of Turin' does not show it. (I just tossed this other 'relic' in here for effect.)
Kinda like Rome telling it's members that they can believe the alleged words of an apparition; even if it ain't Mary.
Then I am sure that a faithful Catholic in this thread will produce a link or two to such evidence.
Has this bag been under your control all the while you've been here in the airport?
I can call myself ignorant; for I know that it merely means that I am unknowledgeable about something or other.
Once the facts of the matter are shown to me; I am no longer ‘ignorant’.
Now STUPID means something else. Like I am incapable of learning or retaining data. Or willfully reject it.
What?
The mere AGE of something gives it respect?
Of course you do; as it is something that you've been taught to value.
I just wonder how the ODDS are calculated.
Daily Mail had an article on some of the items rescued. The Crown of Thorns had the thorns removed quite some time ago and given to churches around the world. A piece of the True Cross was also at ND. I have not heard if it was rescued or not.
All classes of people get conned every day.
I've heard of an Emperor that had some new clothes...
And there are others who'll accept stories without needing to see any evidence.
Why do we lie to our children about Santa bringing them stuff?
'Cause they don't KNOW any better.
It keeps them in line (for a while).
I see your point.
Well, there’s always Maslow’s trapeze. You never know what could be missing.
Merely posting the word does not make a logical argument.
It was a mocking insult at the time.
So was everything else about the crucifixion. That's kind of the point. Yet -- as I will sing at the beginning of Holy Thursday Mass in two days -- "We, however, ought to GLORY in the Cross of Our Lord Jesus Christ, in whom is our life and resurrection ..." (paraphrase of Gal 6:14).
the 'Shroud of Turin' does not show it
The shroud certainly shows the wounds of the thorns around the head. The crown was obviously removed before burial. The crown itself is mentioned explicitly in Scripture, as I'm sure you know.
The earliest historical reference to veneration of the True Cross occurs in the mid-4th century. By the 8th century the accounts were enriched by legendary details describing the history of the wood of the cross before it was used for the Crucifixion.
Adoration of the True Cross gave rise to the sale of its fragments which were sought as relics. John Calvin pointed out that all the extant fragments, if put together, would fill a large ship, an objection regarded as invalid by some Roman Catholic theologians who claimed that the blood of Christ gave to the True Cross a kind of material indestructibility, so that it could be divided indefinitely without being diminished. Such beliefs resulted in the multiplication of relics of the True Cross wherever Christianity expanded in the medieval world, and fragments were deposited in most of the great cities and in a great many abbeys. Reliquaries designed to hold the fragments likewise multiplied, and some precious objects of this kind survive.
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