Posted on 04/15/2019 5:52:50 AM PDT by Kaslin
Last week, the president of Brazil, Jair Bolsonaro, created a firestorm of controversy when he said to a group of evangelical leaders that the Holocaust could be forgiven but not forgotten. But in response to an uproar from the Jewish community in Israel, he claimed that his remarks had been misinterpreted.
As he explained, Forgiveness is something personal, my speech was never meant to be used in a historical context, especially one where millions of innocent people were murdered in a cruel genocide.
Is there a difference, then, between forgiving and forgetting? And is there a difference of opinion between Judaism and Christianity when it comes to these important (and difficult) subjects?
This past Thursday, in a meeting with evangelical pastors, Bolsonaro said (with reference to the Holocaust), We can forgive, but we cannot forget. Those who forget their past are sentenced not to have a future.
So, it would seem that he felt it important to emphasize the importance of keeping the horrific memory of the Holocaust alive while at the same time allowing for the possibility of forgiveness.
In response, Israeli President Reuven Rivlin tweeted (but without specifically referencing Bolsonaro), We will never extend our hand to those who deny the truth or attempt to erase it. Not individuals or organizations, not heads of parties and not heads of states. We will never forgive and never forget. No one will order the Jewish people's forgiveness and no interest will buy it.
And Yad Vashem, from the Holocaust memorial museum in Israel, said in a statement that, We disagree with the Brazilian president's statement that the Holocaust can be forgiven. It is not in anyone's position to determine who and if Holocaust crimes can be forgiven.
What should we make of these statements?
Do they reflect Jewish thought regarding the possibility of repentance? And do they mirror Christian thought?
I can certainly understand the swift response from Israel, as if the gentile, Christian president of Brazil can decide to pronounce forgiveness for the Nazis and their partners in crime.
To say this is to trivialize, to speak for the victims and their families, to minimize the enormity of the guilt.
Yes, it was very bad, but we can forgive and move on. Lets just be sure it doesnt happen again.
But is that was Bolsonaro was saying? And, if there is true repentance, is there still no possibility of forgiveness?
First, I understand that the Brazilian presidents point was this: We do not hold this against Germany for all time. We are willing to forgive when we see contrition and repentance. But we must never forget this horrific evil, lest something like it happen again in our day.
Second, I dont believe Bolsonaro was claiming to speak for God in terms of the fate of Hitler and his henchmen. He was not saying, We pronounce those evil men forgiven. Certainly not.
Third, Israel has forgiven Germany as a nation for its crimes, establishing excellent relations with their former tormentors.
As noted on the Israel Project website (dated January 25, 2012), The German-Israeli relationship has been shaped by the memory of the Holocaust and the strong desire on the part of the German people to help ensure that the suffering endured by the Jewish people between 1933 and 1945 will never recur.
Germany and Israel established diplomatic relations in 1965. Since then, these ties have been characterized by overall friendship between the two nations but also by frequent crises that bring to light the delicate nature of the relations and their emotional fragility.
Isnt this what Bolsonaro was saying?
Fourth, the Bible records that God accepted the repentance of two of the most wicked leaders in the history of Israel and Judah, Ahab and Manasseh, delaying the judgment they were due (see 1 Kings 21:27-29; 2 Chronicles 33:10-17). They were responsible for many deaths, yet God postponed their punishment.
In Gods own words, as recorded by the prophet Ezekiel, Is it my desire that a wicked person shall die?says the Lord GOD. It is rather that he shall turn back from his ways and live (Ezekiel 18:23).
This would mean that, if a Nazi murderer who had escaped justice for many years came forward, confessed his crimes, and demonstrated true repentance, he should be forgiven. (If God, who is infinitely holy and perfectly righteous can forgive, shouldnt we follow His example?) He would still need to pay for his crimes, including lifelong imprisonment or even death, but he would die a forgiven man.
And this, of course, leads to the message of the gospel, namely, that through Jesus, God can forgive and redeem the worst of sinners. This would include Saul of Tarsus (better known as Paul the apostle), who once killed Jews who believed in Jesus, only to receive grace and mercy from God (see 1 Timothy 1:12-16).
Thats how Corrie Ten-Boom could forgive the prison guard the cruel prison guard who tormented her and her sister when they were imprisoned during the Holocaust for protecting Jews. (If youve never read the account, take a moment and read it now. Its worth it! Corries sister died while imprisoned.)
o be sure, the Holocaust itself cannot be forgiven, nor do any of us have the power to pronounce forgiveness on a past generation. In that sense, I concur with the statements from Israel. But we can recognize true repentance when we see it, we can forgive as the Lord forgave us (for followers of Jesus, this is especially relevant), and we can leave vengeance and final judgment to God.
Certainly, I understand why the reaction from Israel was so swift and strong, especially in light of the never-ending attempts to deny the Holocaust (or, at the least, to minimize it).
But there is truth to Bolsonaros words, and as a friend of Israel, he should not be misunderstood.
NO. Even if all the perpetrators were still alive, there should be no forgiveness. All of them should have been given the same treatment as their victims.
And guilt is not passed down from generation to generation. Guilt resides in the individual. No group guilt.
I guess you know what I mean.
Everywhere a lib uses the word holocaust, substitute the word slavery and see what happens.
Golda Meir once said:
“We can forgive you for killing our children, but we shall never forgive you for making us kill yours’”
What a great report. Thanks for sharing
Golda was a true gem...
She also said, “Peace will come when the Arabs will love their children more than they hate us.”
Thank-you!
We thank God for giving the world Golda Meir just as we thank God for giving us Donald J. Trump!!!
In a word: NO. The Holocaust can never be forgiven.
Thank you for your comment!! I totally agree 2,000%. Absolutely, NO, the Holocaust can never be forgiven; never, never, never! Far too many have forgotten and the rest are too stupid to realize it’s starting all over again.
And, let’s add that 9/11 can never be forgiven as well; never, never, never! And, yes, far too many schmucks act as if it never happened. Many are in Congress.
In our religion you must ask for forgiveness and make retribution. Murder is unforgivable, of course, because its too late.
But the government of Germany today can be forgiven judaically by us descendants because they do offer remuneration and apologies personally. Its kind of a semantic thing. No one there was alive then. Ive not chosen to accept their citizenship but Im not emotional about it, rather, no, thanks.
Yeah, Germany was so sorry for The Holocaust, that to atone, they decided to import millions of Muslims that hate Jews even more than the Nazis did.
This past year I went to Auschwitz and stood in the gas chamber to feel the pain of the million plus Jews killed in that room. I was amazed that the majority of the residual sorrow was gone.
I also stood at the execution wall to see from the perspective of those who died there.
The most difficult by far was being in the large room with the shoes of the 30,000 children killed. It made me sick to see what human beings are capable of doing.
Every person on earth should be required to walk through Auschwitz and see what was done. The reality cannot be denied while standing in the remaining belongings and rooms of hair shaved from humans prior to execution. It is sickening.
I am an extreme empathy and the only way I could tour the camp of the dead was to stay connected to God in prayer and send compassion and love to not only those who died there, but also the killers who did the sinful misdeeds. Their souls were in the most torture. They were in worse condition than the victims whose lives they ended.
People’s souls and the memories of past experiences are physical to me, even if they no longer occupy physical bodies. There is one aspect of my reality that most Christians would have much disagreement, and that is ok. I do not need to convince anyone of my opinions.
When I walk through a person’s soul field around their body, the memories are stored in reverse sequence with the childhood and conception memories being about 15 feet away from the physical body. If you ever heard a person say that their life flashed before their eyes, it is merely their conscious awareness expanding through the memories stored in their soul as conscious awareness is no longer restricted to their physical bodies.
If I take a short step beyond the conception memory, I am standing in the death experience of a prior life. As I walk further away I am walking through the memories of that life, back to another childhood and conception. And as I go further out, another lifetime of memories is found, stored in concentric circles like the growth rings on a tree.
Souls are perpetual and are continually growing. In the beginning was the word. Words are merely metaphors for patterns of consciousness, which is what our souls really are.
Love is the glue that holds souls together. Sin is any pattern of consciousness that is an obstacle to Love in our souls.
I speak these words based upon my own experiences while wrestling in my soul to reconcile my daily experiences with Jesus’ teachings in the Bible. It gave a new greater meaning to His words which I read and study daily. I do this not to convince others, but to focus my Love on being “One” with Jesus (True communion), and recognizing God Our Father that is in Him and therefore also in me. This is why Jesus spoke the words He did in John 14.
Our souls expand as we grow spiritually. We are nested in Jesus and God like Russian nesting dolls where we are the little doll in the middle and God is the big outer doll in which we exist. Many layers of consciousness existing as rooms and levels of resistance and reality. As we grow to higher levels, we are purified in the higher frequencies like a dense object placed in the high frequency of a microwave, heating up and catching on fire. This is the perception of burning in hell for those who do not forgive and let hold onto the dense consciousness of fear, anger and guilt.
By the way, your deceased loved ones are not gone. They have graduated to a higher level where their souls continue to grow and be purified. The physical bodies are merely seed pods for our souls, just as our mother’s wombs. The bliss if Heaven is truly beyond words of description.
Even Our Father’s Prayer, given to us by Our Savior Jesus teaches us that receiving forgiveness is conditional upon us giving forgiveness to others. “Father, Forgive us our sins, as we Forgive those who have sinned against us.”
The Bible explains this in many places. To those who fail to forgive others, you are blocking God’s Grace from reaching your soul.
Agreed with everything you posted. Forgiveness in these instances is just another perpetuation of the same evil. There can never be forgiveness. It is coming again because those who soothe their conscious with a false forgiveness are enabling the same evil with a newly found and perverse silence.
Or gushingly feted on Twitter, as long as the victims are honkies. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Thank G_d for the 2nd amendment and Sam Colt.
No. Never be forgiven.
Forgiveness is for God to grant.
No. Never be forgiven.
Forgiveness is for God to grant.
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