Posted on 03/20/2019 5:18:38 AM PDT by csvset
JAKARTA/SINGAPORE/PARIS (Reuters) - The pilots of a doomed Lion Air Boeing 737 MAX scoured a handbook as they struggled to understand why the jet was lurching downwards, but ran out of time before it hit the water, three people with knowledge of the cockpit voice recorder contents said
The captain asked the first officer to check the quick reference handbook, which contains checklists for abnormal events, the first source said.
For the next nine minutes, the jet warned pilots it was in a stall and pushed the nose down in response, the report showed. A stall is when the airflow over a plane’s wings is too weak to generate lift and keep it flying.
The captain fought to climb, but the computer, still incorrectly sensing a stall, continued to push the nose down using the plane’s trim system. Normally, trim adjusts an aircraft’s control surfaces to ensure it flies straight and level.
“They didn’t seem to know the trim was moving down,” the third source said. “They thought only about airspeed and altitude. That was the only thing they talked about.”
(Excerpt) Read more at reuters.com ...
Maybe it's a question of having a system where both computer and human are contending with each other.
“I’m constantly getting out of the car with the key fob in my hand and forgetting to push the button to turn off the engine.........LOL!”
Ours screams at us if you do that. Same if we leave the sunroof open.
Scared the crap out of me the first few times.
L
Apparently you do, in this aircraft. It is a multi-step process, and you need to follow the manual, and you have to go through the procedure twice.
The damage to Boing’s rep is going to be immense.
Basically, they cut a corner by minimizing the changes in the Max 8, so they could sell it as “just another 737” that didn’t need extensive pilot retraining.
They are going to be hammered for that aspect alone, regardless of the technology flaws or non-flaws etc.
Even Capt Sullenberger is hammering Boing for short-cutting the cert. process by using Boing employees instead of FAA inspectors. This is all going to be hugely damaging to Boing’s formerly stellar reps for producing great, safe jets.
If you have push-button start, aren’t you supposed to leave the fob in your pocket and push a button on the door if you want to lock it after you exit the vehicle?
Perhaps, but when you disconnect things like pitch trim or autopilot, then the offending system is taken out of the loop. You can even pull circuit breakers to disconnect them.
Now flight controls, that's another issue.
If you lose a hydraulic system, flight controls are usually double or triple backed up with another hydraulic system.
The aircraft (like Alaska airlines) that had jack screws that completely disengaged and broke...well, that's another issue as well.
The article said runaway pitch trim, which is a common emergency procedure that is practiced in simulators. Once recognized and acted upon, the immediate problem is resolved in mere seconds.
They also had to know what some geek called the problem while writing the manual in his mama's basement in his underwear. You have to know what to "look up", in order to find it. It's even worse if it's not in your native language.
I like to use the analogy of a professional baseball player. Sometimes the make an “error” when a non-professonal would have almost certainly made the same error. But it is an “error” because most prose would not have made the error.
i.e. I’m not saying it was full blown pilot error. I’m simply saying it was sort of a form of it, if only because a previous crew followed procedure according to the “quick tips” book and didn’t crash.
There were some WWII planes that had some interesting quirks. The F4U Corsair was called “widowmaker” because if you stalled it upside down, you ran the risk of it floating to the ground like a leaf, preventing you from exiting. You died when it hit.
But the plane wasn’t considered defective. Rather, the pilots knew about this quirk and avoided what caused it.
If a previous crew knew of this “quirk”, and didn’t bother passing on the info, a fair amount of responsibility for this goes to the airline procedures. Let’s be honest here. What pilot on the planet today would allow this to happen if they were flying one of these planes now? Knowledge is power.
And yes, Boeing bears responsibility for this, but so does the airline if the “previous crew” story is true.
Sounds like that could have been at play here. Sorry for my Western-bias, but when I first heard it was a 3rd world airline.....
Or 2nd world.....you know what I mean?
Can someone please answer that question?
From the article: “Reuters did not have access to the recording or transcript.”
Right then, a clickbait headline for an article that literally contains none of the information it promises.
Nice job Reuters.
When I was teaching my daughter to drive, every time the car would chime or beep a warning, I would start screaming incoherently at the top of my lungs. She very quickly learned to check to see that the key was out of the ignition and the lights were off before opening her door.
I was driving her around the other day, and I left the lights on as I was getting out, and she started screaming and hollering... Smart Ass Kid!!!
It sounds like you're suggesting that there *have* been reports.If so one would think that,particularly after the first crash,they would have been *widely* reported.
Given that both crashes were with Third World airlines and none of the planes delivered to First World airlines (just over 100) have crashed,my money's still on low IQ pilots,inexperienced pilots and/or poor English skills.
I fly all over the world and you couldn’t be more right. Cathay and other similar airlines may be more expensive but I want to hear the Captain speak in some English accent that sounds like it’s American or from the Commonwealth. Call me a racist don’t care.
I don't know about you but I've flown Third World airlines more times than I care to recall. I developed PTSD from one flight I had with Air Malawi.
Suppose you have a situation where the ability to recover is dependent on the skill and training of the pilot involved, but the effectiveness of the automation is such that people and corporations get lazy and disinclined to employ pilots with the necessary skills and/or put out the money and resources to train them?
If the computer is controlling the trim, then what about input from the altimeter? Does that parameter not come into play?
Altimeter tells the computer we’re at 1000’. Computer still trims the nose down?
The previous flight crew were able to solve the same problem without crashing.
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