Posted on 03/12/2019 9:28:04 AM PDT by CondoleezzaProtege
Aviation regulators from China to Britain have grounded Boeing 737 Max 8 planes, joining a growing list of countries suspending the plane’s operation and banning it from their airspace after the second deadly crash of the popular aircraft in less than five months.
After the U.K. issued its statement about the planes, President Donald Trump on Tuesday tweeted: “Airplanes are becoming far too complex to fly. Pilots are no longer needed, but rather computer scientists from MIT.
“I see it all the time in many products,” he said. “Always seeking to go one unnecessary step further, when often old and simpler is far better.”
Lori Bassani, president of the Association of Professional Flight Attendants, which represents flight attendants at American Airlines, said crew members don’t have to fly these planes if they do not feel comfortable doing so. Airlines said they were not changing their ticket-change fees or costs for travelers wishing to switch flights to avoid the Boeing 737 Max.
“No flight attendant is forced to fly if they feel unsafe in any situation,” she said. American operates 24 of the aircraft.
The airline’s pilots union is demanding at least some information about the latest crash and told its pilots Tuesday: “if you feel it is unsafe to work the 737 Max, you will not be forced to fly it.
(Excerpt) Read more at cnbc.com ...
And all the focus is on the Boeing 737 "MAX," but just yesterday a Boeing 737-"900" United Airlines flight had an emergency landing in Houston due to engine catching on fire.
Very good description of MCAS;
Boeing says pilots can easily override the system, and it’s covered in the manual. The pilots that previously flew the LIon Air accident aircraft did disable the MCAS system and made their flight safely. The accident pilots didn’t. It seems to be a training/awareness problem. We don’t yet know if MCAS was the cause of the most recent accident.
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/boeing-to-upgrade-737-max-flight-control-software-456540/
“our country has become the Soviet Union with regard to air travel”
That is an absurd statement.
Why does Trump have to tweet on this? Geesh.
It’s good to be cautious but there is a lot of jumping ship with no solid reason yet. Terrible coincidences do occur, esp w only 2 examples.
Look at Malaysia air. 2 incidents within months. One the greatest mystery of all, the other just war. But everyone was terrified of MH for a while.
sure would like a little “roll open” vent window in my car. And roll down windows wouldn’t hurt my feelings either.
What’s the possibility of sabotage?
Boeings are being made in China.
https://qz.com/1497137/boeings-china-plant-delivers-first-jet-a-737-max-for-air-china/
It would be interesting to find out where these two aircraft were assembled.
you read my mind. see post 7.
It’s good to be cautious but there is a lot of jumping ship with no solid reason yet. Terrible coincidences do occur, esp w only 2 examples.
The solid reason is two nearly brand new airplanes falling out of the sky. Almost assuredly this is a Boeing FUBAR and they need to fix it.
It would be interesting to find out where these two aircraft were assembled.
The problem is probably bad code from some Boeing “engineer” in Bangalore.
Comments that provide facts and technical information should not be allowed on these 737-8 Max threads. Opinions of the clueless, recommendations from politicians and celebrity media types, and input from those who can jump to a conclusion without any benefit of the results of an investigation are allowed. Everyone else should run around and scream and shout.
The problem is with the overall design of the plane itself. The body profile has been out since the ‘60s, and hasn’t changed much except for length. When Boeing set out to make this variant, they stuck with the body design, but changed the wing configuration to change the position of the engine nacelles to accommodate the new propulsion system. The plane now has a natural tendency to go nose-up, so the MCAS system was implemented to keep the flight path stable. It’s an inherently unstable configuration, but as long as the sensors are working properly, the plane will fly fine. But with a faulty sensor telling the MCAS that it needs to move the nose down, the pilots suddenly finds their self fighting the plane’s actions.
The pilots who fly MAX equipment are aware of the issue, but have not been trained properly to react to an MCAS failure.
The MAX configuration was released in mid-2017. Currently, there have only been about 340 delivered worldwide. Prior to the Lion Air crash, very few major US-based carriers even had simulation equipment specific to that model. To date, American, Southwest, and Delta have added MAX sims, but United has not. The installation of these simulators have been very recent, and with thousands of pilots to train, most have not been through hands-on training on how to react to the MCAS scenario.
Immediately after the Lion Air crash, pilots complained bitterly that they were not properly trained on how to react to this problem. Jon Weaks, president of the Southwest Airlines Pilot Association said that the pilots “were kept in the dark.” He also said “We do not like the fact that a new system was put on the aircraft and wasn’t disclosed to anyone or put in the manuals.” The move from the older 737 NG model cockpit to the new 737 Max system consisted of little more than a one-hour session on an iPad, according to Dennis Tajer, the spokesman for the APA.
These incidents are occurring at low altitude and with very little time to react. Decisions need to be made quickly while under duress — all the while at the same time fighting the aircraft’s actions. The Lion Air flight crashed within 13 minutes of the flight. The Ethiopian flight within 6. Both experienced issues only minutes at the tale end of those time frames, and both flights were at an altitude that is not very forgiving.
These planes need to be grounded all over until a definitive answer can be discovered, and proper training initiated on MAX-specific simulators. We have too many of these flying right now to take a risk otherwise.
People like to speculate on all sorts of things. And I don't think any major decisions regarding airline safety are going to be made on the basis of what people opine on this, or any other, forum.
No, but it is causing these airplanes to be grounded around the world. The UK just did exactly that and the U.S. is probably next. Fact free decisions.
“I see it all the time in many products,” he said. “Always seeking to go one unnecessary step further, when often old and simpler is far better.”
The Donald is correct, I see it all the time in the forest products industry. I.E. Tree Harvesters. All they are is a ultra expensive chain saw. Used to be a woodsman could repair even those. Now you have to have a IT degree and a computer to plug in to diagnose those things. AND the manufacturers WILL NOT allow you to get the programs to do so.
We have over 800 million passengers per year in the US, and I think it’s been over a decade, since we’ve had a major US air disaster on a commercial passenger flight.
I looked back over the last several years, and found one passenger was killed in a depressurization incident on Southwest Airline last year.
In 2013 an Asiana Air flight slid off the end of the runway in San Francisco, killing 3.
There have been a few cargo jets that have crashed, killing the crew.
But honestly can’t remember the last major plane crash in the US.
Back in the 1970s and 80s there were one or two major crashes each year (with death tolls of 150 or 200), with many fewer flights and passengers than we have now.
I think the biggest hazards involve air travel in parts of the world where there is not the infrastructure, training and maintenance to operate sophisticated passenger jets.
In further developments the British have announced they will resume service with the Comet.
You got that right in a nutshell. Well said!!
Thank-you for update.
I wonder if these two recent Boeing made airline jets crashes is going to bring in more business to United Technologies Corporation made jet engines increase business?
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