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To: DiogenesLamp
You say this explains how poeple born in the USA are citizens, the first sentence of the 14th Amendment.

All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside.

What is meant by 'subject to the jurisdiction thereof' mean? That's the question that must be answered.

Consider this: according to the interpretation at the time Indians were not citizens at birth, despite being born on American soil (including many Indians born off reservations, didn't do anything to make them citizens).

Here are some excerpts from the Wikipedia article Native American civil rights

If merely travelling to the USA does indeed make you "subject to the jurisdiction thereof" and suddenly able to grant citizenship you do not have automatically to any baby you pop out - then why would an American Indian in 1880, who had their child in an American hospital, still not be an American citizen.

Article;1, Section;2 of the Constitution states that Natives are not under any control of the United States, and therefore cannot be taxed. (Daniel, Susan M. Olson, and Jennifer L. Robinson. Native Vote).[37] The Constitution also stated that Congress has the power to "regulate commerce with foreign nations, and among several states, and with Indian tribes" as stated in Article;I, Section;8. This means that the leaders of the United States at that time viewed Natives as somewhere in between foreign nations and American citizens.

...

When the Fourteenth Amendment and the first civil rights act were passed in 1866 regarding the role of African-Americans in the United States, citizenship of Natives was defined as well. The Civil Rights Act of 1866 states, "That all persons born in the United States, and not subject to any foreign power, excluding Indians not taxed, are hereby declared to be citizens of the United States".[43]

Is a French or Chinese citizen vacationing in the USA still "subject to a foreign power"? Yes, of course they are. The state could order them to report for draft induction, order them to be arrested, order them to stand trial etc.

Even Green Card holders are still subject to their country of origin. Those countries may still tax them, typically control their travel documents and passport.

That's the best case. The worst case is an illegal. Given that they have violated American law to be here, and are esssentaly hiding out, it's absurd to claim that they are legitimately citizens. That is clearly not what the authors of the 14th Amendment intended.

104 posted on 10/20/2018 4:11:40 PM PDT by Jack Black (See my profile for Muller vs.Trump scorecard and other analysis of various anon claims.)
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To: Jack Black
What is meant by 'subject to the jurisdiction thereof' mean? That's the question that must be answered.

What do you think it means?

175 posted on 10/21/2018 8:37:07 AM PDT by DoodleDawg
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To: Jack Black
My point is that this is how it is seen. People and the Courts have accepted this, whether it is right or wrong. My personal opinion on the matter is that the 14th was never intended to grant citizenship to the children of transient aliens, and this is clear if you read John Bingham's commentary in the debates on the 14th amendment.

My second point is that the 14th amendment cannot create "natural born citizens" because "natural born citizens" already existed before the 14ht, and did not require the 14th to be citizens.

Therefore any citizen who relies on the operation of the 14th amendment, cannot be a "natural born citizen" as the term was understood by the Founders.

184 posted on 10/21/2018 11:21:19 AM PDT by DiogenesLamp ("of parents owing allegiance to no other sovereignty.")
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