Manafort Jury asks Judge to define reasonable doubt (Twitter)

Twitter ^ | 8/16/2016 | David S. Joachim

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More David S. Joachim Retweeted David S. Joachim *MANAFORT JURY ASKS JUDGE TO REDEFINE `REASONABLE DOUBT' David S. Joachim added,

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@davidjoachim Breaking via @TheTerminal:

*MANAFORT JURY ASKS QUESTION OVER FBAR FILING

*MANAFORT JUDGE TELLS JURY TO RELY ON COLLECTIVE EVIDENCE

*MANAFORT JURY ASKS ABOUT DEFINITION OF SHELF COMPANY… 2:15 PM - 16 Aug 2018

[Jeff Chandler]

A cutout that makes straw purchases.

Not legal in certain states.

[SamAdams76]

Probably not as he’s got another trial pending - just in case the first one didn’t work out.

[Jeff Chandler]

If the jury is hung, the jury will be hanged (by the Democrat Media Complex).

[Eleutheria5]

They had a reasonable doubt about ‘reasonable doubt’ as charged, so asked for clarification. Encouraging, but not necessarily.

[taxcontrol]

It surprises me that the prosecution didn’t work harder on basic definitions.

[Forty-Niner]

” “what is presumption of innocence.” “

Presumption of Innocence is an overused, ill defined term. In actually it is the prosecution’s onus to prove the elements of a crime to convict (as opposed to the accused onus to prove his innocence).

In this case the accused did NOT put up a defense claiming that the prosecution did Not prove the elements of the crimes charged. The jury in the Manafort’s case will have to determine if the prosecution DID prove the elements “beyond a reasonable doubt to a moral certainty...”

It appears that the jury is unsure of the prosecution’s case establishing the elements of the crime(s).

[Gahanna Bob]

I like your definition. Reasonable doubt is when Mueller bribes an admitted embezzler to rat on the guy he stole money from. Game over.

[SierraWasp]

Ooooooooooo!!! I love your venom dripping post!!! Hit 'em again... Harder, HARDER!!! HARDER!!!

[struggle]

Hung jury and mistrial. If all the jury wanted Manafort charged, it would have happened today. There’s at least one hold out and a few jurors were seen noddi g at the defenses arguments.

[StolarStorm]

Would be tricky for me. He may well be guilty of many of the charges... on the other hand... the case is clearly being used to force him to make false statements against the President.

[Jemian]

Did they mean “shell” company and not “shelf” company?

And by “redefine” did they mean to “explain again”, or did they mean to “give it a whole new and different definition?”

[sitetest]

Shell companies are distinct from shelf companies.

[snarkytart]

It appears the defense gave the jury a chart during closing and this is giving some jurors hesitation on voting guilty. I assume that there are strong Guilty people wanting the JUDGE to define resonable doubt because some waiving jurors are reling on the defense chart below:

[snarkytart]

relying**

[oldplayer]

Correct in Oklahoma.

[Centaur]

Or someone is holding out for acquittal and the other jurors are getting annoyed yelling 'the doubt must be reasonable'. Then the judge rereads the definition which goes something like this:

'A reasonable doubt is one that causes a reasonably prudent person to pause or hesitate in acting in a manner of importance in his own life'.

That's always a good definition for the defense...'Would you hesitate before you bought a car from this slimy, lying so and so?' But then the judge adds that 'it isn't any doubt or one to avoid an unpleasant decision. It must clearly arise from the evidence or lack thereof'.

Sometimes if there are hold outs for acquittal, the majority asks for that reread and then hammers the minority that their doubt is unreasonable. Just my experience.

[snarkytart]

I think they’re are definitely one or two clinging onto the chart the defense showed them at closing..see my post above for the chart the jurors were shown.

They wanted the judge to define it to convince the NG holdouts that the defense chart is wrong. IMO

[snarkytart]

post #153

[arrogantsob]

I would be concerned about harm coming to it if the jurors names are publicized.

[Recovering Ex-hippie]

True