Posted on 06/19/2018 8:40:10 AM PDT by Pinkbell
Here's the thing with this policy, logically, you can make arguments that say it makes sense.
1. There are 50,000 people crossing the border illegally each month, and you need a no nonsense policy. Arrest everyone who violates the law.
2. If you are arresting everyone, you can't make exceptions for people coming in with kids and people coming in without kids.
3. Making an exception for people with kids, has led some migrants to admit they are bringing their kids because they think it will help them get in. This has led to the trafficking of children unfortunately as a consequence.
4. When American parents are arrested, they are separated from their children. Should there be a double standard?
Kirstjen Neilson gave a press briefing and provided excellent information:
~Last 3 months illegal immigration = 50,000 ppl per month ~350% increase in unaccompanied alien children ~435% increase in families crossing the border ~314% increase in child smuggling ~Over last 10 years, 1,700% increase in asylum crimes ~600,000 asylum cases backlogged ~Since 2013, the U.S. has admitted more than half a million minors and families who are at large in the country ~Loopholes cause open borders 1. 2008 Trafficking Victims Protection Reauthorization Act must be amended as it encourages smugglers 2. Reform Asylum Laws To Stop Fraud 3. Amend Flores Settlement Agreement which would allow families to stay together & Congress should fund it.
There are also lies being circulated whether you support it or not:
1. These are called concentration camps, but these same detention facilities were open during the Obama Administration wherein they housed unaccompanied minors with no families. That still encompasses about 90% of the kids in these facilities. If they are concentration camps now, they were then, but we heard nothing.
2. Those images of "cages" are holding centers with chain link partitions to separate people whether unaccompanied, family, males, females, etc. These same facilities were open during the Obama Administration. In fact, there are pictures of even worse facilities during his Administration. However, no one has called him Hitler yet. These facilities are not long term facilities to my knowledge. Children such as unaccompanied minors are transferred to different facilities like the one in Texas with beds, school, recess, a game room, medical facility, etc.
Here are pictures of these facilities during the Obama Administration:
https://www.mysanantonio.com/news/local/article/Leaked-photos-show-immigrant-children-packed-in-5531953.php
3. These people are not all asylum seekers. Asylum seekers turn themselves in at specific points of entry. They are not arrested, and therefore, their children are not separated. These are people who have crossed illegally and upon apprehension ask for asylum because they think that will help them be able to stay. They are allowed to do that, but it is a process.
4. The policy of catching and releasing families who have come in and asked for asylum is poor because there are people who are released who are not showing up for their court dates, and it is an incentive for people to come here.
The reality is that this occurred under the Obama Administration. No, he didn't have a full no tolerance policy, but here is a report on this. Children were separated. This is proof, and here is a full report replete with sad stories the media didn't care about because Obama was President:
https://www.judiciary.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/KIND%20-%20Betraying%20Family%20Values.pdf
ALL OF THIS SAID:
It doesn't matter. From a persuasion standpoint, it's not an argument you can push with the above logic. Why? Because the media aren't going to divulge all of those facts. They won't say a single thing I said above to provide context. They will show pictures of children in "cages" (without providing these are the same facilities used by Obama), write stories of children taken from their parents, and have everyone thinking that children are taken to concentration camps. Obviously, the facilities like the one shown in Texas in the former Walmart wherein kids stay for an average of 49 days and are well taken care of are obviously not concentration camps, but when the rhetoric in the press 24/7 dictates these things, it's hard to overcome. I just watched Wolf Blitzer show the "cages" on TV. The average person watching will assume that Trump built this facility while Obama had people in better facilities.
Therefore, let's have a look at the polls coming out:
A poll from an article in the Daily Beast shows the following:
"Of those surveyed, 27 percent of the overall respondents agreed with it, while 56% disagreed with the statement. Yet, Republicans leaned slightly more in favor, with 46% agreeing with the statement and 32 percent disagreeing. Meanwhile, 14 percent of Democrats surveyed supported it and only 29% of Independents were in favor.
The sample, according to Ipsos, included 339 Democrats, 335 Republicans and 204 Independents."
Here's another one. This one is from Quinnipiac:
NEW: Quinnipiac University poll shows Americans overwhelmingly oppose separating children from parents after illegal border crossings, 66% - 27%.
Republicans, however, back the policy, 55%- 35%.
https://twitter.com/stevenportnoy/status/1008754568702976002
You may personally support this policy, but if you support Trump, consider whether it is good for him. Trump's approval rating among Republicans is sky high, but the approval for this policy is far lower than his general approval rating among Republicans. Only 27% of the public supports it. I have seen people on social media who voted for Trump who now say they regret it in part at least over this policy. A couple say they will vote Democrat.
You have Republicans out there speaking out against it - some conservative and religious leaders - some evangelical. Evangelicals are Trump's strongest voting block. You have members of Congress who are some of Trump's allies opposed to it as well.
The Democrats had the momentum for a blue wave for a while. I could see it on social media, in special elections, and feel the energy. Things were evening out and the Republicans had become competitive in polling. There was little for the Democrats to rant over except Trump's attempts to make peace in North Korea and Russia (which the average public is not consumed with day to day). Their TV shows like Maddow had dropped in ratings. What did this do? It galvanized them? They are planning marches. This is the sort of issue that brings Democrats to polls and can touch independents (a majority of whom are opposed).
This policy from a persuasion or political standpoint doesn't look good. Kirstjen Neilson gave all those statistics at a press conference. Guess what? It doesn't matter. The media doesn't report it. The media could report the facts of the situation so the American people understand the policy whether or not they agree, but they don't. As soon as it was over, they ignored all her facts and went back to saying Trump throws kids in "cages".
Ted Cruz has recognized this is not a good situation and has proposed a good bill. The only thing that may need to be changed in it is the 14 day period. There are so many cases that I have read people saying that's too short. Talk to lawyers and find out how much time it realistically takes and put that in the bill.
This week, Sen. Cruz is introducing the Protect Kids and Parents Act, which will:
Double the number of federal immigration judges, from roughly 375 to 750.
Authorize new temporary shelters, with accommodations to keep families together.
Mandate that illegal immigrant families must be kept together, absent aggravated criminal conduct or threat of harm to the children.
Provide for expedited processing and review of asylum cases, so that—within 14 days—those who meet the legal standards will be granted asylum, and those who do not will be immediately returned to their home countries.
https://www.cruz.senate.gov/?p=press_release&id=3892
I hope that Trump signs this bill. I know he wants to fix the broader issue. We all do. However, if he holds out to fix the broader issue and get a full immigration reform bill, this will drag on, and the images and audio that cross the TV will certainly be used in Democratic midterm campaigns They will say there is a bill there to fix it, one put in place by Republicans, and that he is holding out to get his wall to the detriment of the children. That will be their talking point. Don't forget there are Republicans with big elections, some in purple districts and states, that could be harmed by this.
They have a huge march planned for June 30. Get this done by then! The kids will be happy, it will help fix this issue, and it will be better politically speaking.
“Hey look freepers, it’s our resident negative nabob troll, who is never right but likes to make statements about our impeding electoral doom and gloom.
Anyway, carry on.”
You beat me to it. Well Said.
How does that help us win and them lose?
It doesn’t. But neither does putting forth a bill and passing it to appease them. This is just faster and easier to get to the loss.
Trump is doing the right thing by standing strong and even doubling down.
Never right, eh?
I told you all Roy Moore looked doomed because the allegations and got attacked. I turned out to be dead on right. He lost. Strange would have won easily.
Democrats have picked up nearly 50 once Republican seats since Trump got elected with voters shifting Democrat in multiple races. Pointing that out is a good thing. If you ignore it and don’t analyze strategy, you’ll be an Obama.
When only a quarter of the American public supports your policy and your approval ratings are at 45 percent and this is sucking up all the media coverage, why not take this off the table and sign a good piece of legislation from Ted Cruz? You can barely get the majority of your own party to support it. You don’t want the Democrats using this issue, and they are.
Sure, give the baby the lollie pop. That will teach’em not to throw tantrums.
Ted Cruz’s bill doesn’t do that. It’s totally different from what the Democrats want. See Feinstein’s terrible bill.
Why do anything?
Here’s where we disagree. I don’t think it’s appeasement at all.
It is taking the propaganda issue away from them.
Cruz’s bill just keeps them together under lock and key. After 14 days, and they can’t prove asylum, they all, parents and kids, get thrown out of the country.
PLUS, we really, absolutely need a lot more immigration judges. We don’t have enough, and because of this too many are being allowed to stay and wait for a hearing and wind up skedaddling. A huge increase in these judges can try them and either let the few who actually deserve to be here, and throw the rest out.
THAT would be a huge win for Trump and anti-illegal alien conservatives.
I agree with you. We need more judges, and catch and release is a policy that incentivizes illegal immigration and trafficking. This would end that. That said, from attorney comments on Twitter, 14 days may not be enough even with the needed increase in judges. I think that number may have be adjusted accordingly.
The crepehanger turned out to be right again. Trump is ending this with an executive order (which I think is stupid by the way as it makes him look like he caved & he should wait and sign the Cruz bill).
Never right, eh? Trump is signing an executive order to end this policy. I disagree w/ that b/c it looks like he's caving. He should have waited and signed the Cruz bill.
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