Spent more time looking for this gif than I did reading anything that you wrote.
Couldn't. Care. Less. If. I. Tried.
Posted on 06/19/2018 8:40:10 AM PDT by Pinkbell
Here's the thing with this policy, logically, you can make arguments that say it makes sense.
1. There are 50,000 people crossing the border illegally each month, and you need a no nonsense policy. Arrest everyone who violates the law.
2. If you are arresting everyone, you can't make exceptions for people coming in with kids and people coming in without kids.
3. Making an exception for people with kids, has led some migrants to admit they are bringing their kids because they think it will help them get in. This has led to the trafficking of children unfortunately as a consequence.
4. When American parents are arrested, they are separated from their children. Should there be a double standard?
Kirstjen Neilson gave a press briefing and provided excellent information:
~Last 3 months illegal immigration = 50,000 ppl per month ~350% increase in unaccompanied alien children ~435% increase in families crossing the border ~314% increase in child smuggling ~Over last 10 years, 1,700% increase in asylum crimes ~600,000 asylum cases backlogged ~Since 2013, the U.S. has admitted more than half a million minors and families who are at large in the country ~Loopholes cause open borders 1. 2008 Trafficking Victims Protection Reauthorization Act must be amended as it encourages smugglers 2. Reform Asylum Laws To Stop Fraud 3. Amend Flores Settlement Agreement which would allow families to stay together & Congress should fund it.
There are also lies being circulated whether you support it or not:
1. These are called concentration camps, but these same detention facilities were open during the Obama Administration wherein they housed unaccompanied minors with no families. That still encompasses about 90% of the kids in these facilities. If they are concentration camps now, they were then, but we heard nothing.
2. Those images of "cages" are holding centers with chain link partitions to separate people whether unaccompanied, family, males, females, etc. These same facilities were open during the Obama Administration. In fact, there are pictures of even worse facilities during his Administration. However, no one has called him Hitler yet. These facilities are not long term facilities to my knowledge. Children such as unaccompanied minors are transferred to different facilities like the one in Texas with beds, school, recess, a game room, medical facility, etc.
Here are pictures of these facilities during the Obama Administration:
https://www.mysanantonio.com/news/local/article/Leaked-photos-show-immigrant-children-packed-in-5531953.php
3. These people are not all asylum seekers. Asylum seekers turn themselves in at specific points of entry. They are not arrested, and therefore, their children are not separated. These are people who have crossed illegally and upon apprehension ask for asylum because they think that will help them be able to stay. They are allowed to do that, but it is a process.
4. The policy of catching and releasing families who have come in and asked for asylum is poor because there are people who are released who are not showing up for their court dates, and it is an incentive for people to come here.
The reality is that this occurred under the Obama Administration. No, he didn't have a full no tolerance policy, but here is a report on this. Children were separated. This is proof, and here is a full report replete with sad stories the media didn't care about because Obama was President:
https://www.judiciary.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/KIND%20-%20Betraying%20Family%20Values.pdf
ALL OF THIS SAID:
It doesn't matter. From a persuasion standpoint, it's not an argument you can push with the above logic. Why? Because the media aren't going to divulge all of those facts. They won't say a single thing I said above to provide context. They will show pictures of children in "cages" (without providing these are the same facilities used by Obama), write stories of children taken from their parents, and have everyone thinking that children are taken to concentration camps. Obviously, the facilities like the one shown in Texas in the former Walmart wherein kids stay for an average of 49 days and are well taken care of are obviously not concentration camps, but when the rhetoric in the press 24/7 dictates these things, it's hard to overcome. I just watched Wolf Blitzer show the "cages" on TV. The average person watching will assume that Trump built this facility while Obama had people in better facilities.
Therefore, let's have a look at the polls coming out:
A poll from an article in the Daily Beast shows the following:
"Of those surveyed, 27 percent of the overall respondents agreed with it, while 56% disagreed with the statement. Yet, Republicans leaned slightly more in favor, with 46% agreeing with the statement and 32 percent disagreeing. Meanwhile, 14 percent of Democrats surveyed supported it and only 29% of Independents were in favor.
The sample, according to Ipsos, included 339 Democrats, 335 Republicans and 204 Independents."
Here's another one. This one is from Quinnipiac:
NEW: Quinnipiac University poll shows Americans overwhelmingly oppose separating children from parents after illegal border crossings, 66% - 27%.
Republicans, however, back the policy, 55%- 35%.
https://twitter.com/stevenportnoy/status/1008754568702976002
You may personally support this policy, but if you support Trump, consider whether it is good for him. Trump's approval rating among Republicans is sky high, but the approval for this policy is far lower than his general approval rating among Republicans. Only 27% of the public supports it. I have seen people on social media who voted for Trump who now say they regret it in part at least over this policy. A couple say they will vote Democrat.
You have Republicans out there speaking out against it - some conservative and religious leaders - some evangelical. Evangelicals are Trump's strongest voting block. You have members of Congress who are some of Trump's allies opposed to it as well.
The Democrats had the momentum for a blue wave for a while. I could see it on social media, in special elections, and feel the energy. Things were evening out and the Republicans had become competitive in polling. There was little for the Democrats to rant over except Trump's attempts to make peace in North Korea and Russia (which the average public is not consumed with day to day). Their TV shows like Maddow had dropped in ratings. What did this do? It galvanized them? They are planning marches. This is the sort of issue that brings Democrats to polls and can touch independents (a majority of whom are opposed).
This policy from a persuasion or political standpoint doesn't look good. Kirstjen Neilson gave all those statistics at a press conference. Guess what? It doesn't matter. The media doesn't report it. The media could report the facts of the situation so the American people understand the policy whether or not they agree, but they don't. As soon as it was over, they ignored all her facts and went back to saying Trump throws kids in "cages".
Ted Cruz has recognized this is not a good situation and has proposed a good bill. The only thing that may need to be changed in it is the 14 day period. There are so many cases that I have read people saying that's too short. Talk to lawyers and find out how much time it realistically takes and put that in the bill.
This week, Sen. Cruz is introducing the Protect Kids and Parents Act, which will:
Double the number of federal immigration judges, from roughly 375 to 750.
Authorize new temporary shelters, with accommodations to keep families together.
Mandate that illegal immigrant families must be kept together, absent aggravated criminal conduct or threat of harm to the children.
Provide for expedited processing and review of asylum cases, so that—within 14 days—those who meet the legal standards will be granted asylum, and those who do not will be immediately returned to their home countries.
https://www.cruz.senate.gov/?p=press_release&id=3892
I hope that Trump signs this bill. I know he wants to fix the broader issue. We all do. However, if he holds out to fix the broader issue and get a full immigration reform bill, this will drag on, and the images and audio that cross the TV will certainly be used in Democratic midterm campaigns They will say there is a bill there to fix it, one put in place by Republicans, and that he is holding out to get his wall to the detriment of the children. That will be their talking point. Don't forget there are Republicans with big elections, some in purple districts and states, that could be harmed by this.
They have a huge march planned for June 30. Get this done by then! The kids will be happy, it will help fix this issue, and it will be better politically speaking.
I couldn’t care less.
I’m tired of seeing the country being run by a bunch of propaganda rather than reality. These kids are separated from their parents for very brief periods of time and it is done only for very good reasons. The entire issue is made up to hide Korea and spy gate.
I understand that, but even if you agree with it, I’m sure you support Trump, and I hope if you have time you can look at my post wherein I analyze the data with respect to the midterms. You are in trouble that this has lower Republican support than Trump’s approval rating among Republicans by a decent number (about 30% I think). Don’t even start on the independents.
America and Americans first, or the death of America. This is what is at stake. They came in via Mexico and should leave via Mexico.
It's also amazing to see how the "conservatives" in the GOP and commentariat at NR just roll-over for this bull----.
Not to pass and sign this bill is to to the Rats a favor:
“This week, Sen. Cruz is introducing the Protect Kids and Parents Act, which will:
“Double the number of federal immigration judges, from roughly 375 to 750.
“Authorize new temporary shelters, with accommodations to keep families together.
“Mandate that illegal immigrant families must be kept together, absent aggravated criminal conduct or threat of harm to the children.
Provide for expedited processing and review of asylum cases, so that—within 14 days—those who meet the legal standards will be granted asylum, and those who do not will be immediately returned to their home countries.”
That is true that there is a lot of propaganda and omission of facts (which I call out), but you have to ask yourself is that working? Polls and the comments I see all over Twitter show that it is. Sometimes you just take the L and move on. The Cruz bill will let the kids stay with Mom and Dad and help address this issue.
to to -> to do
Anyway, carry on.
Gee, that was a fast poll. Have they done one yet on whether Hillary should be jailed?
Spent more time looking for this gif than I did reading anything that you wrote.
Couldn't. Care. Less. If. I. Tried.
The Democrats will never vote for Cruz’s bill.
They don’t want a fix; they want a political issue.
Its going nowhere in an election year and common sense immigration reform will only happen when pigs can fly.
That’s EXACTLY what’s going on here
It happens after every Trump success. That great speech he gave. More . . .
Feigning “outrage” and “the children” is what Dimwitz do. They no more care about anyone other than their own.
Lyin, cheatin, connivin bastards
As I said, they didn’t create a panic when Obama used these facilities. They didn’t create a panic when this was happening on a smaller scale under Obama. That said, the media has been very effective in the regard of making sure that people think that these facilities are new under Trump & this happened for the first time under Trump. None of it matters. From a persuasion standpoint, people aren’t going to look at the facts that I laid out above or that Kirstjen Neilson did. This is an emotional issue.
We’re not talking about the death of America, no matter how you look at it. We’re talking about the death of America, “as we know it”. To get perspective, watch the movie, “The Fly”. the machine didn’t kill him. It changed him. ;)
Exactly. Not passing this could help them in the midterms.
Just a suggestion for the future.
If you are going to put all those links within a posting why not make them
clickable so they don’t have to be copied/pasted into a search engine, etc.?
You care a little or you wouldn’t have spent time looking for the gif or telling me you didn’t care. You would have just kept it moving.
Honestly, I don’t know how to do that on here in a main post. I would like to, but when I put them in, they aren’t clickable. They are if I post as a comment, though.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.