Posted on 06/11/2018 5:25:21 PM PDT by RoosterRedux
(Excerpt) Read more at youtube.com ...
and i don’t see it as deliberately provocative- many Jews do infact reject Christ- they will tell you themselves that they do- The thread is simply stating facts- IF discussion come out of it- again- the Spirit listeth where He will
Yep. Thanks for your posts.
Exactly where do you get power and authority to speak for Christ. Stick to the Scripture... people are given the 'right' to choose what path they will take. Christ is the same yesterday, today, and will be forever ... He was God with us, regardless of what any other religions claim.
How wrong can you be?
Listen to Jews who know the truth in the Torah:
My own family, half of which are Jewish, the other half Christian, have respect for each other. They do not debate the Torah, they accept its clear meaning.
In the link above you will hear and see highly educated Messianic Jews discuss the clear meaning of the Torah in regards to many insecure projections of non-pious Jews who cannot defend their rejection of the Messiah except to claim that Christians are untrustworthy and are not understanding the Torah as it should be understood. The response of non-pious Jews is always the same, to deny, to make excuses, to twist the meanings.
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My Jewish great-grandfather was a pious Jew. When I visited him as a young man, he told me that he loved me, that he was disappointed that I had chosen my Mother’s faith, but that it was my choice and it was to be respected. Then he asked me to promise him that I would always love my Jewish family, that I would always act to try my best to help them, to never forget that they are family first. I promised him all those things and I have never broken those promises.
So here is what I tell my Jewish family, I say that St. Paul, a Roman Jew wrote that Jews would one day wake up to Jesus as Messiah. I tell them until then, we are to respect each other, to help each other and let God be the one to act His will. That works for us.
I will ask you to always extend your hand in friendship to a truly enlightened and righteous Christian. Not all Christians are true Christians. They go through the motions in the same ways that some Jews go through the motions. Do not judge Christianity by the clear faults of some lesser Christians. There are righteous highly educated, highly spiritual Christians that you should greet in friendship. And finally, when you see a Christian who is influential and seems to harbor an animus towards Jews, do not inflame the tension. Rather, ask your Rabbi to meet with the aberrant Christian and to offer to break bread, to talk peace and goodwill. Such acts bring people together and go a long way to removing suspicions and festering hostilities.
In the interim, you are to be respected for your beliefs and all are to protect your right to your beliefs as established under our Constitution. I always tell Christians to honor Jews because they have the seed of Abraham in them, the seed of the Patriarch whose lineage was to bring forth the Messiah because he was obedient to God. And I tell Jews that Christians are to show deference and respect to Jews and therefore please act accordingly as honorable Jews setting good examples for all.
“Jews reject J*sus because they are bound for all eternity to the Torah . . . as it has existed since Sinai (none of this ‘fufillment’ garbage, please!). The Torah excludes any such religion as chrstianity, no matter how much of Judaism chrstianity ‘acknowledges.’”
Conservative Christians here appreciate our conservative Jewish FRiends as we share a lot in common politically, socially, and in our faiths. You do not have to convert to Christianity to be appreciated.
Christians are NOT commanded to convert everyone. We are, however, commanded to proclaim the Gospel. Some will believe. Some will not. Doctrinally, Christians who understand the Bible know that it is impossible to coerce someone into becoming a Christian believer. This conversion is supernatural and can only be done by God alone. The perception of Jews that Christians are all only interested in proselytizing and converting them to Christianity is one of several things that Jews find offensive about evangelical Christianity.
I do not expect to convert you. And I especially do not intend to coerce you or anyone else to become a Christian. However, because Christians believe, in this current age, the revealed Gospel message about Jesus is a requirement to receive eternal life, we proclaim this message from both the Greek and Hebrew scriptures. This principle is based on the connection between reason and faith. And faith is the basis for the imputed righteousness of God for salvation from sin.
Isaiah 1:18
“Come now, and let us reason together,”
Says the Lord,
“Though your sins are like scarlet,
They shall be as white as snow;
Though they are red like crimson,
They shall be as wool.”
The central issue is sin and its consequences. Because of the sin that occurred in the Garden of Eden, all of humanity is under the curse of God and the consequence of sin in the world. But in the Divine judgment is also the hope that goes along with the first Messianic promise of the Bible:
Genesis 3:15
And I will put enmity
Between you and the woman,
And between your seed and her Seed;
He shall bruise your head,
And you shall bruise His heel.
According to Christian tradition, it was the Devil or Satan operating through the serpent. Also according to Christian doctrine, every person will ultimately be identified with one of these two seeds: the serpent (i.e. children of the Devil), or the Divine Seed of the woman who is the Messiah (these are children of God who are spiritually reborn into God’s family). The seed of the serpent will be personified in the ultimate counterfeit Messiah—the antichrist, who will mislead the world before Jesus the Messiah returns.
We see in the lineage of Adam the Divine plan of redemption. Cain and Able are a literal embodiment of two competing religious systems. The true religion of Seth was based on faith and a blood sacrifice patterned after the slaying of an animal by God to clothe Adam and Eve. Cain’s religion was one of self-righteousness, presenting to God the fruit of his own hands. When God accepted the sacrifice of Able but was displeased with Cain’s offering, Cain ultimately killed his brother. And this is the nature of false religion versus true down through the centuries. But Able’s death did not hinder God’s Divine plan. God gave Seth to take his place.
Cain’s descendants were destroyed in the deluge of Noah, but Able’s were preserved. Jesus has the same ten ancestors that all of humanity shares today: Adam, Seth, Enosh, Cainan, Mahalalel, Jared, Enoch, Methuselah, Lamech, and Noah. From Noah’s sons, all the nations of the earth came, and also came the promised Seed of the woman, the Messiah.
Consider the meaning of these ten names:
Adam was a man, the first man and head of mankind, made in the image of God.
Seth was one in the image of his father, one who was appointed (Seth means appointed), in context, to take the place of what was lost.
Enosh means to die.
Cainan means possession.
Mahalalel means light of God.
Jared means to come down.
Enoch means to be experienced.
Methuselah means when he dies it will be sent.
Lamech means priest or servant of God.
Noah means comfort, and contextually, comfort in the deliverance from the curse of God.
Together we see the Divine plan moving forward to fulfill His promise of the Seed who is the Messiah: The Messiah is the Man in the very likeness of God, who was appointed to die in the place of those who were lost due to sin, and His death was the purchase price for our redemption. He was the light of God who came down from Heaven. And the experiential fulfillment of God’s promise was accomplished when he died. He was the great High Priest who redeemed mankind from the curse.
The Divine plan of redemption continues in the Torah with Abraham with a promise to bless the whole world through him:
Genesis 12:3
I will bless those who bless you,
And I will curse him who curses you;
And in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed.
The Messiah was not only the Priest but also the sacrifice as the Paschal Lamb of God. Of course you are familiar with the Christian view that Isaiah 53 describes the Messiah as the sacrificial Lamb.
Isaiah 53:7
He was oppressed and He was afflicted,
Yet He opened not His mouth;
He was led as a lamb to the slaughter,
And as a sheep before its shearers is silent,
So He opened not His mouth.
Verse 3 of this passage is where we also learn that this servant was “despised and rejected by men” (and not just men of Israel but of all nations).
But Abraham also prophesied of the Messiah who would be the Paschal Lamb of God:
Genesis 22:8, 13
And Abraham said, “My son, God will provide Himself the lamb for a burnt offering.” So the two of them went together... Then Abraham lifted his eyes and looked, and there behind him was a ram caught in a thicket by its horns. So Abraham went and took the ram, and offered it up for a burnt offering instead of his son.
God did not provide a lamb to Abraham that day. He provided a ram. But Abraham, as a prophet, was correct that God would provide Himself a Lamb which is the Messiah.
The offering of Isaac is also a prophetic picture of God giving His Son as a sacrifice to take away sin. Abraham was willing to obey God, knowing by faith that God was able to raise his son from the dead. God chose rather to intervene and prevent Abraham from completing the offering, though his faith and willing obedience were proven to be true. And indeed Jesus was raised from the dead, and the Greek scriptures record many of the eye-witness testimonies.
God chose that the Messiah would come through Abraham, and specifically through the nation of Israel. Why did God pick Israel?
Deuteronomy 7:7-8
The Lord did not set His love on you nor choose you because you were more in number than any other people, for you were the least of all peoples; but because the Lord loves you, and because He would keep the oath which He swore to your fathers, the Lord has brought you out with a mighty hand, and redeemed you from the house of bondage, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt.
God chose Israel because of His own character and righteousness, not because of the righteousness of the nation of Israel.
Deuteronomy 9:6-7
Therefore understand that the Lord your God is not giving you this good land to possess because of your righteousness, for you are a stiff-necked people. Remember! Do not forget how you provoked the Lord your God to wrath in the wilderness. From the day that you departed from the land of Egypt until you came to this place, you have been rebellious against the Lord.
We learn the reason for God choosing Israel in the pattern of the prophet Jonah. God sent Jonah to preach repentance to Nineveh. God knew exactly how everything would unfold. He prepared a storm because He knew Jonah would run away in the opposite direction God sent him. He sent the fish because He knew Jonah would be thrown overboard. He also used the fish to demonstrate His power being greater than the fish-god Dagon that Nineveh worshipped. God also prepared a vine to shade Jonah and a worm to eat and destroy the vine. God was not surprised that Jonah was disobedient and rebellious at first. And, in fact, God chose Jonah for this very reason, in order to demonstrate His sovereign power so that He could intervene in Nineveh and bring them to repentance and save them from destruction.
Likewise God chose Israel knowing that as a nation they would reject the Messiah, and in so doing the Gospel would be proclaimed to the Gentiles. This does not mean He has rejected Israel or broken His covenant with Israel, no more than He rejected Jonah as His prophet. The book of Jonah ends with God admonishing Jonah:
Jonah 4:10-11
But the Lord said, “You have had pity on the plant for which you have not labored, nor made it grow, which came up in a night and perished in a night. And should I not pity Nineveh, that great city, in which are more than one hundred and twenty thousand persons who cannot discern between their right hand and their left—and much livestock?”
And the story seems incomplete. Jonah says no more. He does not respond or show he learned and understood this Divine instruction. And this symbolizes that Israel will likewise not understand her role in God’s Divine plan of salvation. Israel is God’s chosen nation. She is like God’s prophet, Jonah. Like Jonah she did not commit the idolatry of Nineveh but worshipped the true God and attempted to keep His laws. Yet she failed to see her Divine commission to be blessing to all nations through the Gospel.
But what nations have repented like the city-state of Nineveh? The message of salvation is proclaimed to all nations, but only a remnant from every nation will respond. And as I said, this is a supernatural work of God. So, not ALL of Israel is in unbelief. God has a remnant within Israel that has received the Messiah, which is Jesus.
Daniel describes the antichrist and how some nations will fall and some will be spared and preserved into the reign of the Messiah on earth. Israel, of course, is the first and most important nation which God will spare from destruction when He judges the earth. And He promised in Daniel 9 to bring His chosen nation Israel to the fulfillment of all of His promises in His eternal covenant.
Daniel 9:24
Seventy weeks are determined
For your people and for your holy city,
To finish the transgression,
To make an end of sins,
To make reconciliation for iniquity,
To bring in everlasting righteousness,
To seal up vision and prophecy,
And to anoint the Most Holy.
When this is accomplished He will fulfill His covenant with Israel with the permanent righteousness through writing His laws on their heart:
Jeremiah 31:31, 33
Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah... But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.
Yep - and Peter “The Rock upon which the Church would be built” couldn’t divorce himself enough from Judaism so Paul ended up carrying a bigger part of the load for getting the Good News out....
Interesting. So the verse refering to David the king means something else in the grafted religion?
Thanks you for taking the time to put this all together - very well said. We have now been fully restored to the place held by Adam and Eve before their first sin - at peace with our Creator. Alleluia!
I am not attempting to speak for Jesus, but I too have a mind and beliefs - and I don’t believe God gave them to me to be a impediment to faith but an aid.
Here, I’m addressing a thread that seems unnecessarily provocative - intended to be that way! - and arrogant.
It’s certainly not a useful way to persuade others toward your beliefs. It puts people off, instead.
The truth is that unsaved Jews do not worship God. Jesus is God. This is why the Bible says they are antichrist.
“Who is a liar but he that denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist that the denies the father and the son. Whoever has not the son has not the father. But that acknowledges the son has the father also.” (1 John 2:22-23)
"8 Then Peter, filled with the Holy Spirit, said to them: “Rulers and elders of the people! 9 If we are being called to account today for an act of kindness shown to a man who was lame and are being asked how he was healed, 10 then know this, you and all the people of Israel: It is by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified but whom God raised from the dead, that this man stands before you healed. 11 Jesus is
‘the stone you builders rejected, which has become the cornerstone.’
12 Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to mankind by which we must be saved.”
Peter denied Jesus three times.
Let that sink in and DON’T BE SO JUDGMENTAL. Worry about your own soul first.
Crusty, it refers to David, the son rejected (the lad is in the field) by his father Jesse until Samuel, through divine wisdom, anointed him the future king.
There is nothing new under the son (hmmmm....)
The "new testament" "proves" chrstianity just as the "holy qur'an" "proves" islam and the "book of mormon" "proves" mormonism.
You'd recognize the fallacy in someone else's argument, yet you continually use it yourselves!
If the Jew can pay for their own sin by their own work of repenting, why do they need the blood sacrifice?
In the days when the Temple stood, Jews were required to bring sacrifices to repent for sins as well as pray. Now that we don't have the Temple, we substitute personal repentance in prayer only.
Find fault with Jesus then.
(John 14:6,7)
[6] Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
[7] If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
The NT is painfully consistent on this matter. Jesus declares the Father. Those who believed the Father would also believe in Jesus.
Unrepentant Jews are bound for the lake of fire, just as all unbelievers are. Their pride in the law prevents them from seeing that they too are imprisoned in sin and need the savior as well.
I am often condemned for being judgmental, when I cite scripture. It is not I that judges, it is the word of God. If you love the unsaved, you will present them with the gospel of Jesus Christ. There is salvation in no other.
I agree--listen to JEWS who know the truth in the Torah. Your website is operated by MESSYONIC "jews" whose aim is to proselytize poorly educated, and therefore vulnerable to malarkey, Jews. Its information is slanted for that purpose and anything else on that website is totally suspect, since its aim is to look "Jewish-like" to convince uneducated people that it's authentic Jewish knowledge. Not!
Yo Impact,
“The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart...”
Name that verse.
> “Unrepentant Jews are bound for the lake of fire, just as all unbelievers are.”
By your response, you show you are more lost than any Jew could hope to be.
You are judgmental, egotistical, no better than a mindless scribe of the Temple in the day of Jesus’s passion.
I will repeat one more time and this is my last post to you:
WORRY ABOUT YOURSELF!
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