The untold reason why Jewish people do not believe Jesus is the Messiah!

In my experience, people are attracted to and interested in one’s way of life or philosophy by the love, kindness and respect that one shows toward them.

But if you are convinced that you know what’s best for others, and that alienating them is the way to win hearts and minds: carry on.

But there is only one viable explanation for each of these separate and independent historical facts:

1. the tomb was empty

2. the disciples scattered in a panic after the crucifixion but within a few days’ time suddenly became unified and cohesive in their purpose

3. the disciples devoted their lives to the Gospel despite certain poverty, misery, persecution, torture and murder

4. the conversion of James, a skeptic

5. the conversion of Paul, an enemy

Carry on?

You are an idiot.

You discourage examination...but think you are a savior.

Perhaps you are a liberal.

The most difficult challenge in life is to follow God’s way of doing things instead of my way or your way.

Seems to me this is one of if not the most important theme in all Scripture, both Jewish and Christian.

Calling someone with whom you disagree a ‘liberal’ seems to be the FR equivalent of Godwin’s Law.

Then make a cogent argument to redeem yourself.

Lacking that, one wonders about your intelligence.

I think it’s been apparent in this thread that I’m simply against instigating arguments between Christians and Jews about the particulars of religious beliefs. I’m not interested in arguing with you about your beliefs, either.

(And I don’t fall for insults.)

Where in the Torah does it say that?

Thank you for replying!

You are making very broad statements based on a verse out of context.

Hardly. 1 John 2 addresses sects who claim they have God, but reject the Messiah (God incarnate). This applies specifically to Judaism and Islam which both look forward to a conquering messiah, but reject Jesus Christ.

Jesus is the only Messiah there is. The Jews rejected him when he came in the 1st century AD. They will most likely accept the false messiah that is coming -- the son of perdition -- the antichrist.

When Jesus comes again, he comes to claim his own and pour out his wrath. See Matthew 24 and Mark 13 for Gospel treatments of his return. Revelation is much more detailed treatment. See the first of 22 sermons in this excellent series. Book of Revelation, Chapter 1

“Hardly. 1 John 2 addresses sects who claim they have God, but reject the Messiah (God incarnate). This applies specifically to Judaism and Islam which both look forward to a conquering messiah, but reject Jesus Christ.”

While it may be accurate to describe certain theologies and religious systems as being in agreement with the antichrist spirit, it is misapplied to call others “antichrist” who may simply be ignorant. The reality is that the whole world is going to be taken in by antichrist, and many of these people will be professing Christians, not just Jews and Muslims and other non-Christian religions. Indeed, the antichrist spirit is PRIMARILY referring to professing Christians. Many antichrists will come in the name of Jesus.

First John is addressed to believers, not unbelievers. John addresses his audience as “my little children”. See 2:1. “Brethren.” See 2:7. Ones who have the “anointing from the Holy One”. See 2:20. “Children of God”. See 3:2.

His purpose includes warning against false teachers among them. He warns, “Little children, let no one deceive you” in 3:7.

John provides important indicators for our discernment about truth and error, false teaching, the antichrist spirit, and other issues.

You have misapplied and misused several scriptures. And this is very serious business, especially when calling down judgment on others. And I am warning you as someone who has made similar mistakes myself—not trying to elevate myself as your superior or to condemn you.

Here was your original statement in #64 that I responded to:

“The truth is that unsaved Jews do not worship God. Jesus is God. This is why the Bible says they are antichrist.”

I provided several scriptures in #70 showing why you are in error. You have ignored all of them so far.

John is NOT calling all unbelievers antichrists. But you have chosen to make a general, blanket accusation against them that is insulting and in error. The “antichrists” John warned the believers about were ones who had at one point been part of the church, professing followers of Christ:

1 John 2:18-19
Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour. They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.

You made a similar error in #83:

“You have been admonished by scripture twice. You are a hypocrite, a heretic and the Bible commands that you be rejected (Titus 3:10).”

You appear to be unaware of what this passage means. If you did you would be more cautious to accurately apply it.

Titus and Timothy were appointed by Paul, an apostle, to lead young churches he planted to enough maturity to appoint elders and other leaders to take over the leadership responsibilities. They also had the authority to discipline and correct those in error.

Titus 1:5
For this reason I left you in Crete, that you should set in order the things that are lacking, and appoint elders in every city as I commanded you.

One of the functions of an elder is to teach. Itinerant elders, deacons, teachers, and other leaders were examined for their qualification and were tested before being appointed. (See 1 Timothy 3:10.) So if an aspiring teacher would not listen to correction after a couple warnings, they were disqualified and “rejected” from being appointed to these ministries. It does not mean they were immediately kicked out of the church after two warnings. It certainly does not mean they were to be burned at the stake like some eras of Christendom practiced.

Satan quotes scripture and may temp even Christians to misapply it and make bad choices. And there are many cults who quote scripture also. So it is very unreasonable to quote some verses to someone and demand their instantaneous condescension and full agreement with YOU. You are elevating your own opinion about scriptures to be equal in authority with the scriptures themselves. And this is exactly what cults do.

So before you begin thinking of yourself as being like the apostles or Elijah, and want to call down fire from Heaven, you would do well to discern what spirit you are of. See Luke 9:55.

The apostles did NOT appoint you to “reprove, rebuke and exhort with all authority” every Christian you encounter. And certainly not every unbeliever. (Those who are outside God judges according to 1 Corinthians 5:13.) This authority was given to Timothy and Titus as a pattern for the church as a whole, not to individuals to assume the role of Timothy and Titus and run around trying to straighten everyone else out.

Instead try applying passages about patience and grace:

Matthew 18:21-22
Then Peter came to Him and said, “Lord, how often shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? Up to seven times?” Jesus said to him, “I do not say to you, up to seven times, but up to seventy times seven.”

Colossians 4:6
Let your speech always be with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer each one.

Galatians 6:1
Brethren, if a man is overtaken in any trespass, you who are spiritual restore such a one in a spirit of gentleness, considering yourself lest you also be tempted.

“Jesus is the only Messiah there is. The Jews rejected him when he came in the 1st century AD. They will most likely accept the false messiah that is coming — the son of perdition — the antichrist.”

Not ALL Jews rejected Jesus. Jesus came into this world, a Jew. All of His disciples, prior to the Gospel being received by the Gentiles, were Jews. Christianity began as the faith of Jews. The nation of Israel rejected Christ because their national leaders rejected Christ, but as always God preserved a faithful remnant who did believe in Jesus.

And the nation of Israel most certainly will receive the antichrist. Jesus said this precisely. And just as certainly he will betray them at the abomination of desolation.

“When Jesus comes again, he comes to claim his own and pour out his wrath. See Matthew 24 and Mark 13 for Gospel treatments of his return. Revelation is much more detailed treatment.”

I am very familiar with all of these scriptures. Antichrist is going to unleash the worst persecutions of Jews and Christians in history at the abomination of desolation.

“See the first of 22 sermons in this excellent series. Book of Revelation, Chapter 1.”

This series advocates the false doctrine of “replacement theology” which substitutes the Church for Israel. This is inconsistent with the teaching of the apostles:

Romans 11:1-2a
I say then, has God cast away His people? Certainly not! For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. God has not cast away His people whom He foreknew.

And I believe this is probably where some of your tendency to misapply passages about Jews comes from. See Romans 11:28.

Again, I am not trying to condemn you or this teacher. You both may have some very helpful things to contribute in your knowledge of the Bible. But a great deal of damage is done when error creeps in. And this is the kind of heresy that Paul was referring to when he told Titus to reject from ministry ones who refused to be admonished. If you want to be useful to God, you MUST correct such serious errors, otherwise God will set you aside and you will waste a lot of time being unfruitful for God’s kingdom.

Sounds like you and the teacher in this Bible series subscribe to the prewrath rapture. And I do agree that this is a good representation of the Biblical chronology.

But be aware though that God’s judgment must first begin at the house of God. See 1 Peter 4:17.

Sorry for the insult. I have a tendency to get cranky at night.

Apology accepted.

The so much. Sorry for being old and cranky

LOL! I’m old, too, and often cranky.

(Getting old sucks; but it beats the alternative.)