Posted on 06/11/2018 4:32:03 PM PDT by jazusamo
The USS Constitution, the oldest commissioned ship in the Navy, sits in Boston, revered by sailors and history buffs.
The second-oldest ship, the USS Pueblo, floats at a river dock in Pyongyang, still a hostage more than 50 years after North Korea seized it in a January 1968 raid in the frigid waters of the East Sea off the Hermit Kingdom’s northeastern coast.
Calls from the surviving crew to bring the ship back have amounted to naught. The Colorado legislature, protective of the ship named after one of its cities, also weighs in every year with a resolution calling for the ship’s return.
After one version passed 10 years ago, a state lawmaker got a postcard, featuring a photo of a North Korean soldier smashing his rifle butt against the head of a Western-looking man in a blue uniform. The card had a North Korean postmark and on it, in flawless English, the writer urged the politician to “come and take it, you dirty American.”
That’s actually the polite version of what was written, according to Republican state Sen. Bob Gardner from Colorado Springs, one of the sponsors of the “bring home the Pueblo” resolution this year. Mr. Gardner still marvels at the perfect, idiomatic English written on the unsigned card.
“But it proved that someone in Korea was watching our resolution even if no one in America does,” Mr. Gardner said.
As President Trump meets with in Singapore with North Korean leader Kim Jong-Un, the possession of the USS Pueblo remains a sticking point between the two nations.
The Pentagon declined to comment on any efforts to get the Pueblo back, and referred all questions to the White House. The White House, in turn, did not respond.
(Excerpt) Read more at washingtontimes.com ...
I was in RVN at the time and lived on a Navy base.
The Naval officers were not very kind to CDR Bucher during their critique of the event. I felt at the time that the Navy did not respond with forces available just a short time away and left him twisting in the wind.
Some Navy officers felt that he should have put up a fight with what pathetic inadequate weapons he had available on the ship in order to allow time for the destruction of equipment etc.
(These Navy guys were in a position to know.)
>>Whoops....whatever happened to the USS Constellation <<
Kirk rammed it into the maw of the Planet Eater.
2nd oldest on the active register of Naval ships. The USS Texas is still afloat, but isn’t still on active duty. The USS Pueblo will be until returned to the US.
Yes, it definitely ‘fits’ the times and while it may be somewhat of a stretch, having worked in the outer fringes of that ‘community’ it does seem entirely plausible.
I understand that.
It is easy to imagine one might act differently. I tend to think it is hard to predict what one will do when being fired on by heavy machine guns and 57 mm cannon inside basically a tin-lizzy ship.
I cannot judge them, but I imagine a lot of Navy officers imagined themselves going down with the ship.
In practice, I suspect it is different. And that ship was barely regular Navy...it was a real tub.
I have wondered what we would do with the Pueblo if we ever got her back. Would she wind up a museum ship or would she be destroyed? If we get her back, she should be kept as a museum ship. I’d love to see her.
If the Norks haven’t found the warp core by now, they never will.
You were an RM, what do you think of theory? I was an AF fixed facility Tech Controller (307) and you Navy guys had a lot more exposure and experience, even scuttlebutt. I guess they may have planted something, but I think the whole let communists capture a Naval Security Group Ship to help verify a mole is a little far fetched.
ROFL, you don't expect much in the opening round of the process, do ya? Try being a little realistic sometime.
Heck, transfer of the Pueblo would be a massive symbolic gesture. It would be an amazing way to get the ball rolling.
It would be nice - and may happen, but isn’t large in the developing picture.
I think we should let her rest on the ocean floor.
The Pueblo Incident was not a good one for our country in any way.
We dropped the ball, we put our men in a position to fail, we underestimated an enemy, we were incompetent and weak in our response...we let them get tortured and starved for a year, then shamed them and raked them over the coals when they finally came home.
My mother, a career naval wife, had a degree of scorn for those protecting “The Naval Service”. She didn’t like the concept of someone falling on their sword and taking one for the team to protect the Navy when it was unjust.
When she talked of this, her Italian-Armenian eyes would flash very black as she spoke. Her voice would take on a very bitter and harsh edge.
My father would sit across the table, smoking his cigarette and drinking his coffee, listening silently. I never asked him about it, but the distinct impression I clearly got in his body language was “That is the way it is. You do it because you are a naval officer. It isn’t even worthy of discussion.”
My mom was a good Navy wife, but she didn’t like being that way sometimes. I imagine there were times when she would pigeonhole one of my dad’s superiors at some alcohol and tobacco fueled party (of which there were many in those days at places outside of CONUS during the Vietnam war) where she would be giving the guy a piece of her mind, while my dad, drink in one hand and cigarette in the other, would be watching her warily with an air of resignation.
There were times I think she put him in difficult spots.
Anyway, I don’t think she should be a museum...I have always felt it was better to see an old ship sunk, rather than cut up for timbers or razor blades. Kind of the equivalent of planting a person six feet under when they die.
I could see CDR Bucher with moist eyes, in his blues, giving her a salute when she went down. She was a tub and a rust-bucket, but she was a ship, and she was his.
I personally think it is far fetched. I am not saying it was impossible, and there are things in that book that I might buy into, but in general...no.
When it comes down to a choice between incompetence or conspiracy...incompetence is usually the right choice.
Not incompetence on the part of the Pueblo and her crew...I think they were just guys doing a job with a sub-par piece of equipment, a marginal set of orders, and nobody backing them up.
The money in the Vietnam War wasn’t being expended on equipment and missions like the Pueblo. They had to scrape the bottom of the barrel for whatever they could find. Hell, her and her sister ship, the Banner, had powerplants and steering that were so old and broken down that one wonders how they steamed them across the Pacific.
My ‘formal’ training (pre RM) was in CT school...
As to the US ‘sacrificing’ a ship is sort of in the ‘far fetched’ category, the SAME US President had absolutely NO PROBLEM with Israel slaughtering several crew members on an NSG ship.
Also after WWII ‘we’ had no problem using GIs as ‘guinea pigs’ in LSD and other mind altering ‘projects’.
Caused more than a few people to convince themselves they could fly off of a multi story building. They couldn’t.
Like I say, I was on the ‘outer fringes’ and it happened after I got out BUT, given the past history, I just can’t completely dismiss the theory.
Exactly. This is stupid.
Can you imagine trying to tow that thing back? I’m sure the Norks skipped meals buying one pound plate to keep the wind and water strake from turning into a spaghetti strainer.
Is it even seaworthy?
I feel a bit the same way, I don’t dismiss it out of hand.
Richardson is a nincompoop, just like Madeline Albright, John Kerry et al. It's good we have serious people in serious positions of power now.
In almost all cases only one of two fates await a ship. The bottom or the breakers. You may be right, the deep six would be a more fitting end for her then the breakers torch.
In almost all cases only one of two fates await a ship. The bottom or the breakers. You may be right, the deep six would be a more fitting end for her then the breakers torch.
I believe you're right on that, the main thing is to recover her and get her out of North Korea.
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