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Nobody Knows Anything About China: Including the Chinese Government
Foreign Policy ^ | March 21, 2018 | James Palmer

Posted on 03/22/2018 10:52:54 PM PDT by drop 50 and fire for effect

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To: kaehurowing; drop 50 and fire for effect

Drop 50’s post is correct. Its not about whether you are “free” to watch movies and eat McDonalds.

My understanding is that in China: the elephant in the room is its Maoist genocidal past. There is deep shame and suppressed guilt, and massive-massive coverup and denial of the collective hand society had in the Cultural Revolution — the dark effects of which linger and haunt China to this day.

The one child policy also has had traumatic effects especially for women who underwent enforced/forced abortions.

You are not even allowed to discuss tragedies and government crimes like Tianenmen Square massacre in the open.

And there is this intense pressure to keep up “modern” appearances even with all this historical, cultural baggage left unattended to.


21 posted on 03/23/2018 1:40:33 AM PDT by GoldenState_Rose
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To: Vendome
The article was a rip of Rumsfields theory ...

It may be Rumsfeld's theory now, but I recall hearing it enunciated decades before Rumsfeld's pronouncement of it.

22 posted on 03/23/2018 1:53:09 AM PDT by cynwoody
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To: drop 50 and fire for effect
The Chinese economy is based on debt and cheap labor. They use the cheap labor to export consumer goods that the west, and especially the US, buys.

If the US market is closed to their goods they will not be able to pay their debt. Disaster awaits.

23 posted on 03/23/2018 2:18:57 AM PDT by Former Proud Canadian (Islam delenda est.)
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To: Former Proud Canadian

You are correct. Being embargoed with respect to the US market would devastate the Chinese economy. Just like being cut off from US oil shipments in 1941 was seen as a devastating move against the Japanese economy.

The question is, what would be the Chinese response?


24 posted on 03/23/2018 3:08:12 AM PDT by SauronOfMordor (Socialists want YOUR wealth redistributed, never THEIRS!)
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To: goldstategop
The Party elite and top government officials get uncensored and candid reports average Chinese are not allowed to see.

The issue is not uncensored and candid, but rather accuracy. The Chinese system is layered and the path from the data provider at the local level to the General Secretary is long.

The argument from the author, which I believe has merit, is that given the cultural and bureaucratic environment, the raw data used is itself suspect.

As long as things are well in hand, the status quo will continue.

The Party may honestly believe (and it could be true) that things are well in hand, but there could be something out there, unseen by the available data, that is lurking, the classic "black swan."

To revisit your Soviet example, Gorbachev and the Politburo thought they had things well in hand, until 1989. Nobody in the Party, the government, their intelligence community, academia, the military, or in the Western equivalents foresaw just how quickly that house of cards would collapse.

25 posted on 03/23/2018 3:18:03 AM PDT by drop 50 and fire for effect ("Work relentlessly, accomplish much, remain in the background, and be more than you seem.")
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To: goldstategop

I once heard a Navy flag officer wax eloquently about “perfect situational awareness” the idea that computers and sensors would provide a commander all the information they would ever need.

Then Iraq and Afghanistan happened, and Heisenberg b-—h slapped us (DoD) in the face and reminded us about reality.


26 posted on 03/23/2018 3:23:26 AM PDT by drop 50 and fire for effect ("Work relentlessly, accomplish much, remain in the background, and be more than you seem.")
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To: SauronOfMordor
I don't know what the Chinese response will be, we will see.

Maybe they will refuse to ship any more cheap garbage to Walmart. I guess Walmart will have to source their cheap garbage somewhere else.

There is nothing that the west imports from China that we cannot make ourselves. Some point to Chinese production of rare earths as irreplaceable but they are wrong. There are many rare earth deposits in North America just waiting to be exploited.

China is a net importer of energy, specifically crude oil from the middle east. Cheap, plentiful energy is the engine of a modern economy. Cut it off or increase the price and China suffers immediately.

Furthermore Chinese cities are choking on air pollution and withering from a lack of clean, potable water. This is a huge public health problem that gets worse by the day.

27 posted on 03/23/2018 3:27:51 AM PDT by Former Proud Canadian (Islam delenda est.)
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To: GoldenState_Rose
“Why are you shouting there, babblers, Why do you threaten Russia with anathemas?” —Alexandr Pushkin
28 posted on 03/23/2018 3:29:36 AM PDT by granada
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To: SauronOfMordor
There are people on this very forum who simply refuse to believe that Japan had any justification even in their own minds to bomb Pearl Harbor.

History must be utterly mystifying to someone who thinks every event occurs in a vacuum, totally unrelated to any other event...

29 posted on 03/23/2018 3:38:44 AM PDT by null and void (The difference between the democrats and the GOPe is the GOPe has a smaller fire under the frog pot.)
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To: drop 50 and fire for effect

China isn’t the only country whose official government statistics can’t be trusted.

http://www.shadowstats.com/alternate_data/inflation-charts


30 posted on 03/23/2018 4:40:26 AM PDT by jdege
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To: drop 50 and fire for effect

we do know there is a large population segment that is young and upwardly mobile and urban and tuned to the digital life. These youth are not fans of the old communist ways.

Xi must tread carefully to govern such an educated and ambitious segment. They are the future. They are the Chicaps.


31 posted on 03/23/2018 4:51:59 AM PDT by Thibodeaux (Long Live the Republic!)
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To: Thibodeaux

“What do you think of China?” - President “Bobby’
“It’s full of Chinese.” - Chauncy Gardner.


32 posted on 03/23/2018 5:05:12 AM PDT by MGG
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To: Vendome

“You can’t unbake a cake.”

- D. Rumsfeld


33 posted on 03/23/2018 5:46:32 AM PDT by T-Bone Texan
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To: drop 50 and fire for effect; All


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34 posted on 03/23/2018 5:48:17 AM PDT by musicman (The future is just a collection of successive nows.)
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To: GoldenState_Rose
"...in China: the elephant in the room is its Maoist genocidal past. There is deep shame and suppressed guilt, and massive-massive coverup and denial of the collective hand society had in the Cultural Revolution ..."

I work with a lot of Chinese, including FOBs with little outside experience.

They have no idea of their own history. They are incredulous when I tell them basic facts about Chinese recent history.

The young ones don't know about Tienamen Square. The older ones are afraid, even here, to talk about it. It's like a survival mechanism, I think, but who knows, because ultimately they are inscrutable.

35 posted on 03/23/2018 5:52:10 AM PDT by T-Bone Texan
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To: Former Proud Canadian
"...Chinese cities are choking on air pollution..."

Chinese smog is regularly sensed by California air quality monitors. It is that bad!

36 posted on 03/23/2018 6:01:26 AM PDT by T-Bone Texan
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To: null and void
There are people on this very forum who simply refuse to believe that Japan had any justification even in their own minds to bomb Pearl Harbor.

History must be utterly mystifying to someone who thinks every event occurs in a vacuum, totally unrelated to any other event..

Exactly. The Japanese leadership prior to and during the Second World War were masters of self-delusion and underestimating the response of their enemies.

Never underestimate the ability of people to fool themselves

37 posted on 03/23/2018 6:12:04 AM PDT by GreenLanternCorps (Hi! I'm the Dread Pirate Roberts! (TM) Ask about franchise opportunities in your area.arare)
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To: GreenLanternCorps

And never ever forget that we too are people.


38 posted on 03/23/2018 6:14:32 AM PDT by null and void (The difference between the democrats and the GOPe is the GOPe has a smaller fire under the frog pot.)
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To: Thibodeaux
Xi must tread carefully to govern such an educated and ambitious segment. They are the future. They are the Chicaps.

But Xi won’t. And the new wealthy will revolt as the current unsustainable system starts to crumble. The US needs to wean ourselves off of the opium pipe that is cheap Chines goods before that happens. Trump’s tariffs may help in that.

39 posted on 03/23/2018 6:15:38 AM PDT by jdsteel (Americans are Dreamers too!!!)
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To: GoldenState_Rose

I disagree...... Xi sees the future. Hong Kong and the Pearl river Delta region are the future and they have hordes of youth flocking there.

I believe Xi took the lifetime job to begin weaning off the hardline communist stance. The hardline old timers are not the future. The wealth of his nation is already well into the process of transition from what is to something unknown influenced by the educated and upwardly mobile young people


40 posted on 03/23/2018 6:27:18 AM PDT by bert (K.E.; N.P.; GOPc;WASP .... The Fourth Estate is the Fifth Column)
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