Posted on 02/24/2018 9:13:27 AM PST by dennisw
And order in coffee and donuts so they can debate whether they will get around to saving lives?
Oh, and be sure to order in some earplugs so they don't have to listen to the gunshots and screams of the unarmed victims being slaughtered inside while they have your little coffee klatch outside.
Bureaucratic rules being promulgated by administrators with no respect for the lives being lost a short walk away. This is what modern law enforcement has become. If that SRO was so righteous, why was he put on unpaid leave days after the truth came out? Because he failed in his duty to protect the lives entrusted to him. Why have two others been suspended as well? Because they failed. There seems to be a lot of failure to act going around in Broward County and Florida at many levels.
Well said Marine. With two or more people it's advancing contact imminent; I don't know what they call it these days. They could of done better, probably saved lives but they made a choice to stay safe outside instead.
My aren’t you an opinionated SOB. How many years did you serve as a police officer? How many years did you serve in Vietnam? Maybe it’s time you shut the “F” up and sat down!
This is what Broward County is dealing with, perhaps many other parts of America.
http://freebeacon.com/politics/broward-county-sheriff-i-provided-amazing-leadership-to-department/
Wow! This is an opinion forum, I expressed my OPINION, where appropriate, I supplied links. Exactly who are you to tell me anything? Go ahead, give us your CV, tell us all about what experience you have that give you the unique qualifications to tell anyone to be quiet.
You are part of the problem, not part of the solution IMO.
I was a deputy sheriff in Maricopa County for 8 years in the 1970’s AND I served 15 months in Vietnam! Your post to me, “You have no idea what your talking about.” AND “Condemn one, condemn all, but to say you know what you would have done is merely bravado, you were not there, you did not do anything”. Either you don’t read what you write or somehow you don’t consider that a personal attack. And yes I (and others) can have an OPINION that you, sir are an idiot!
Sheriff Joe is someone I admire and what happened to him should not have happened.
I was an EMT and Fireman for 8 years, and have supported the military and all of its war fighters my entire working life, I have been involved in shootings, and had to take a life protecting my own. I was trained by the PAL and have remained proficient for 35 years.
As an EMT, I was on the back end of several shootings, waiting to go into hot fire situations. My observation was that there were no “Hotdogs”, for safety of the officers and the innocents, commanders need to know where everyone was to prevent unneeded casualties.
Likewise I have worked on extremely sensitive Military Bases and installations and was regularly drilled on shooter scenarios as part of my job, also unauthorized breeches of perimeter fencing on installations. This was throughout my career.
I worked with Police, military, and secret service during that time. I was there during the Vietnam war, as well as during Desert Storm, in a support capacity with Military and sub-contractors. Through all my experience, you don’t run into an unknown situation, you work with your C.O. or team leader, and you follow instructions.
We are talking about killing this guys career over 4 minutes, and that is what is deemed accurate by exactly who? How can you know what he was doing during that supposed 4 minutes?
Sheriff Scott Israel still does not know, internal affairs is still sifting thru the facts, but don’t you find it strange that when Coral Springs came onto the scene, Broward police had not entered the building? Why? Who told them ALL to stand down? Why did all the police from Broward not be suspended like Scot Peterson, or put on Administrative Leave (Unpaid) as well?
Something stinks up to high heaven, and everyone in the Police Dept at Broward have closed ranks and are only letting Scott Israel speak for the Department.
The fact that you were a LEO in MC for 8 years does not tell me what you did for that 8 years, what actual experience you had during that time, but I presume you must have had swat training, ran raids on illegal immigration, wait, in 1970 you would have probably already served in Vietnam, and came there after getting out of the service.
So your probably retired by now, Probably entered the service in the late 60’s. You know as well as I do, that unless you have experience with active shooter scenarios, personal experience, knowing military situations are much different than civilian, but I don’t have to tell you that.
And even with recent, relevant experience, every situation is different, many different parameters. You would not go into a kill zone, under armed, with no cover, perhaps unless you saw innocents in harms way. We do not know what Scot Peterson saw in his scenario. Just a gung-ho supervisor that was not there, making the only PC judgement he could make, taking Peterson out of the equation until they got a clearer picture of what happened, which is Standard Operating Procedure (SOP), I would not be surprised that Peterson took the bullet for the department to try to defuse the situation for the department. It has happened many times before.
That is MY Opinion...you don’t have to share it. But stating as fact, that which is not determined yet to be true, can only be your opinion, Demanding it is true, based on YOUR experience does not make it true.
I do not care one whit if you think I am an idiot, your entitled to your opinion. I know what I know, and will wait for the facts to emerge, and they are coming quickly. We have yet to hear from Scot Peterson, we may, or we may never. More than one person has been convicted in the court of public opinion, and I want no part of that conviction.
There is plenty of time, after the fact, when the more accurate facts will be forthcoming.
Right now, I want to see what they are going to do to protect the children going forward.
On that, I am sure, we all agree.
Hmmm this just in from a teacher in the Bldgs reaction the Scot Peterson...
MS Douglas Teacher Says Officer Scot Peterson Used As “Scapegoat” | MSNBC
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbzYXaIiXko
Cruz suited up and assembled/loaded up w/in one minute?
Because, unlike the deputy outside, he would have no choice but to be in the middle of it.
I just listened to this at intellihub, then looked for a youtube posting of this report. I found the teacher Stacey Lippel, and a heavily redacted video of the interview located here....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qtOZj6l4qag
I hope it gets forwarded many times so it does not disappear. It can be dispelled quickly if video or photos from any person of the shooter in action.
Curiouser and curiouser...
Does ANYONE out there have a picture, video, eye witness of Nicolas Cruz holding or firing the weapon in the School, or a survivor who was injured who saw the face of the shooter, and can identify it as Nicolas Cruz?
I have looked and cannot find any evidence to prove it was him.
Nobody saw what was in the backpak or the duffle bag, the weapons that were supposedly left on the 3rd floor have not been said to be retrieved. None of the shell casings have been said to be recovered...nothing...anybody???
I am grateful for this forum where so many can share information to help the police in this matter.
Two other points...
1. Once Cruz was arrested there had to be alot of GSR all over him (gun shot residue), any reports on this...
2. He pulled the fire alarm, yet no firetrucks arrived. Often Firetrucks respond quicker than LEO...yet no fire response.
As is usually the case...”something’s fishy”.
I agree.
Thank you for your thoughtful response and taking the time to reply You make some excellent points. My apologies for my personal comments which were inappropriate. We have more than enough outside targets to be expending ammunition on friendly fire.
So, yeah, he did nothing. If he "secured the perimeter" how did the perp leave the premises?
Said by Scott Israel, who was not there, saw a video, but did not and has not heard the audio transcripts by his own words. Also, if you look at the floor plan of Bldg 12, he cannot be in the stairwell unless he is inside bldg 12. Some contend he was in another building across from it, but I have heard two other YouTube statements saying they saw him IN Bldg 12, but then exited. I wonder why?
As I have said earlier, I have been in combat - and no it's not all that different than fighting an armed aggressor in a school. We had good people to protect and we had to face automatic weapons (and grenades and mortars and rockets) directly to do what we had to do. As I noted earlier, were our lives less worthwhile than a cop's?
I don't believe for one second that he can be excused by doctrine or by "waiting for orders from superiors" when every second counts to try to stop mass murder.
You were an EMT and have police training - fine. But people like me have stood up and moved when we had to, when lives were at stake.
You're way too quick to exonerate the only man in the area with a pistol and capability to do something about it.
I hear everything your saying, but there IS a difference, you were not in a fight or flight scenario, you were in a do or die scenario, and I too have been involved in a do or die scenario, not just training, but action. I wish with all my heart that I had not been, but there it is. You had no choice in your predicament. As we learn more, other factors outside our purview may have been at work.
For the sake of argument, lets say he could have gone in, If this was a trained assassin, with full body armor, and say 5.56 rounds, he would not have made a difference he would have been quickly eliminated. Next, lets say he knew (Its all speculation at this point), as well as the 3 other Broward Sheriffs, and stood down, as this was a political killing spree (A trained assassin could have upped the body count easily). Witnesses saw large duffle bags of something being tossed into a truck in the back of the building, and driven away. Next, we have a witness who saw the gunman, and it was not identified as Cruz. He did not have the time to put on such gear and still be able to fire his weapon so quickly, less than 2 minutes. There has been not one witness who saw Cruz with the weapon firing at students, there is no video of the shooting (every kid in that school had a phone with a camera, and not one of them got a shot of the shooter, or a video, yet many of the students in the rooms.)
Next the other possibility, The deputy was a coward, and did not enter the building, but wait, there was a student speaking to the deputy by the stairwell, look at the floor plan, you can only access the stairwell INSIDE the Bldg 12, so was that a lie, was he not even in the stairwell in Bldg 12, or was the student lying?
Finally, the third and last scenario, in my mind. The deputy was outside the building, and never entered. He was castigated by the sheriff for his inaction, yet curiously, never did the same to the 3 officers of his own department, that never entered the building either but were outside behind their squad cars.
If Cruz had done this, there would be GSR all over him (gun shot residue), there would also be bullet casings everywhere, with probably finger prints on those casings, and there would be a recovered AR-15 with finger prints, a vest, the duffle bag, spent equipement on the floor during reloading, the backpack..many things. Where is the uber driver? So many unanswered questions.
They may know these answers as a course of the investigation continues, but do not share it with the media or the public, but with the scrutiny the Broward Sheriff is going thru, my guess is that much would leak to exonerate him and the fact that they got the right guy.
This whole thing stinks. What could have been gotten away with in the past, with the advent of cell phone technology, digital photography, aerial surveillance, drones, and rapid communications..perhaps alot more difficult today. People are smarter, quicker, and better prepared to document a crime scene. Rapid interviewing that goes to snapchat, facebook, twitter, and a host of other media outlets,not to mention rapid dissemination of information over the web.
Things will come to light by many sources that those who would want to compartmentalize details will not be able to contain... but that is just my observation and my opinion.
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