Posted on 01/27/2018 10:37:14 AM PST by Krosan
Good luck.
I’ve cut a lot of them out of my life in the last few years.
People that are self destructive and awful to those around them are not good people to be around.
Just listen to them and then ask questions.
For her it would be easy......
Pick a single subject, get all the facts in detail....
Then discuss.....
As a Doctor, good analytics is critical....
No emotional argument...
Drawing on some diverse experience:
You do not disrespect me in my home in front of my children. We can talk, but you will not lecture me as stupid, crazy, evil, bigoted because I hold conservative opinions. You will not use such insults as a last gasp attempt to win an argument, and if you insinuate my views are based on those biases, I will tell you to check YOUR biases.
There are people who cannot be civil and reflexively name-call, even with family. If you’re going to show up and lecture me on the religiousness of our Christmas celebration or hector on politics in response to “Thank God Trump won”, YOU are the one out of line and uncivil, creating division. Check the attitude or leave. Yes, there are some who don’t come.
We will tend to discuss shared values and interests. I am open to discussing how my political views are based on evidence and shared desires - help the poor by encouraging marriage because out of wedlock childbirth is a near guarantee of poverty, fighting poverty by teaching Dave Ramsey and financial skills over handouts that teach dependence, renouncing affirmative action that discriminates against poor whites AND fails to help poor blacks in favor of improved education and cultural reform to lift all of the poor up.
Show Prager University videos to the kids to explain a topic to answer a question. Then it isn’t me lecturing but various scholarly people. Dave Rubin, David Horowitz ... I’m not a crazy bigot when left wing people can agree with him and do a five minute presentation. The teens got sick of Dave Ramsey and Rachel Cruze, but they’ve learned how bad debt it, too.
Look for books that you both read / agree with, whether Dave Ramsey, Dr. Laura, the Millionaire Next Door. You can discuss strategies that work from there, and where practical, lead into political. If those sources show that 90% of the wealthy are first generation, inheritance taxes and confiscation schemes based on assumptions they all just inherited it all like a feudal system is clearly false and thus wrong ...
Encourage agree to disagree. If you don’t like the meat, you can bring stuff for a baked potato bar. If you don’t want the turkey, you can bring vegan whatever. I’ll try vegetarian Riblets. You will not hector my kids for eating X, but you can discuss why you don’t. (Aunt was vegetarian Buddhist.)
My entire family is like that. 125+ IQ, all of them. And every one of them is liberal. That said, I think I know why. Because they are busy people, they really dont have that much time to look into the issues deeper than, say, one level. They dont have time to read up on things either, so they trust the MSM and the narrative.
I am the sole Conservative among them (2 parents, 5+ siblings). Every family gathering is a struggle, they will spout off whats been spoon fed to them, and these days, I just sit and take it. They always look at me, knowing I disagree, waiting to see if I say anything (I just happen to be the most informed... oh, what a coincidence).
I have stopped trying to convince them about our side of any particular issue, but one thing I can get them to agree on is how terrible the MSM is. Once I get that hook into their brain, I can lead them into understanding how the MSM is all about Narrative, not Truth. And if I can demonstrate a few narratives that "everyone" knew was real, that turned out to be false... it gets them to thinking.. and I just leave it at that. To do any more would be to make them defensive, they dont want to be convinced by SOMEONE ELSE, too much resistance, but they just might figure things out for themselves......
DEFEAT THEM
AVOID BEING AN ENABLER
They talk emotionally. Nothing will change it but grief.
You do not. Go to a movie.
Ask her if she really works 13 hours a day, or if that is what she bills the insurance companies.
As those conversations progress I will always promote them as Individuals.
Individuals that are fully capable of making up their own minds and they should reject any efforts by anyone that tries to “Tell” them what to think or do.
You may like this;
No Science, No Logic and No Morality: Atheism
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wxz84kS8k4U&t=333s
I work with Doctors. Their daily exposure to the worst unfairness that happens to people every day makes them sensitive to the leftist view.
Thanks. Funny story:
I got a cryptic note in my 6th grade yearbook from the class tough guy that I treasured at the time. “To a girl who knows how to keep her mouth shut. “ I considered it a compliment. I still do. Lol.
Tell her the truth, Joy Behar’s sh!t stinks.
indeed - it’s subtle to let someone misguided learn on their own that their deepest beliefs are wrong
If you really want to save them from their leftist delusion, it is not a case of making a great argument, expecting they will suddenly “see the light.” Rather, it is a long process of education — dropping hints and crumbs for them to follow. Some will follow; some are too lazy. Help the lazy if you can, but be resigned that they are probably condemned.
You cannot just tell them the answer; it takes time to change their fundamental way of thinking and it helps a great deal if they discover some of the answers for themselves (through research) rather than being given the answer without any work on their part. So make them work. Drop hints and crumbs that are dissonant to their established thinking. Mostly this involves exposing the contradictions that they have overlooked. For instance ... So, you believe that communism or socialism will redistribute wealth more equitably. Where does the funding for these movements come from? Lead them to the answers: Soros, Rockefeller foundation, the tax exempt “philanthropic” foundations (NPR regularly rattles off a list of their supporting guilty foundations). Then drop the juxtaposition to create the dissonance: So, you believe that the rich who control these foundations want socialism to put an end to their “capitalist” wealth? You believe that, right? Give them a while to cogitate; don’t jump on them; back off. Once you have planted a seed like that it cannot be undone.
For those that have research skills, I’m sometimes more direct. I tell them that I can give them a historic clue and if they follow it and pull on all the threads they will discover everything they need to know that explains today’s world. If they are receptive and inquisitive, I tell them: OK, the key to everything is “Who gave Trotsky the $20 million dollars? Who funded the Russian Communist revolution? The people who funded Trotsky and Lenin are dead now, but the institutions and “forces” they represented still exist to this day — find out who funded Trotsky, follow their organizations to the present, and you will understand.”
If the begin the research, occasionally ask what they have discovered. Explain the significance of their discoveries if they themselves don’t recognize it. Feed them more crumbs / leads for research. But don’t give them all the answers. They have to discover most of it for themselves. But the information is now out there (when I caught on in the late 1980s, before the internet, it was very difficult to find some of the rare books that had the needed information. Today much of it is out on the internet.)
I always found this to be one of the most touching funerals on celluloid. “Frank you’re dead”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=5&v=o97cg9Rauqg
An occasional zinger will come your way.Use it in a polite, even jovial manner.
Once I was in a conversation about global warming with a dear colleague. She said that most scientists feel that global warming is real. I said, “ See, they ‘feel’ that it’s true, which implies belief, not necessarily real facts.
She was quite impressed, it seemed.
This is essential in understanding the situation. Liberals cannot be convinced; they must be converted, experiencing metanoia, meaning a complete change of thinking--the word which in the Bible is translated "repentance," but repenting doesn't mean saying you're sorry, but admitting your whole thinking and acting was wrong and you need to start from the beginning to get it right (again).
For those of us who were hardcore liberals in our youth (I was an all-in volunteer for McGovern in 1972 when I was 18, and all the union people were for Humphrey), we understand this. I loved America, I loved the idea of America, but I had to go through a complete conversion in order to understand what the "idea" of America actually was, and it took over a decade (much like David Horowitz, though I wouldn't put myself at his level) to come to the admission that my love for America required conservative thinking.
To make it worse, I went from liberal to neo-con, believing that globalism would bring the best of America to the rest of the world, rather than bring the worst of the rest of the world to America. But leaving neo-conism didn't take a conversion, since it was evident that it was accomplishing the opposite of what it promised, so my thinking didn't change, but rather the method--and that is what happens in convincing.
To convince someone, you and s/he have to share the same set of first principles, and that is no longer the case with liberalism; it might have been in the 1940s with Truman or the 60s with JFK, but no longer, and I am sad to admit that I am part of the reason, helping to turn the Democrats in the McGovern direction.
indeed - it’s subtle to let someone misguided learn on their own that their deepest beliefs are wrong
And then, sometimes I get in their face.
True story.
My Ex-GF, a flaming Liberal where discussing race in America and she said that “More Blacks were killed in the Vietnam war than whites”.
I said “That can’t be true”, she said “Everybody knows that it’s true”.
I said “Prove it”, and we took up our dueling internet connections to find the answer.
We both found different sources, official sources that approximately 18% of those killed in Vietnam where Black. This number also fell in line with the overall demographic of America at the time.
Watching her Cognitive Dissonance expressed on her face and then her physical attacks toward me was wild, to say the least.
From that day on I found myself taking every opportunity I could to send her into that state, just for fun.
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