Not to mention being sexually attracted to his sister ...
Posted on 01/05/2018 9:41:37 AM PST by Rummyfan
Rey is a fool, IMHO. I agree with your assessment. And I suspect that by the last episode, we’ll see Kylo redeemed. In science fiction, evil is usually unattractive, and heroes tend to be good looking. It’s a casting choice, of course, but it’s intended to ensure that the audience roots for the “correct” side. I mean, why are we supposed to root for The Resistance in the first place? I’m not a hardcore fan (never saw the Prequels at all) but I’m guessing that when the first few movies were made, the writers weren’t particularly concerned with making a point as to why one side was inherently more noble than the other. That takes time. Much easier to simply put your attractive human faces on one side, and monsters, freaks, and scary guys in masks on the other. Kylo looks like the scary guy in the mask, till he takes it off and oh my... deep eyes, soft lips, and a mass of hair? Come on. No one cast this guy thinking he’s going to be evil to the bitter end. He’s either redeemable or tragic.
Yes, but my point is, he doesn't need changing. As someone else pointed out, he's not inherently evil. He has gone with whomever accepts him and guides him. He was with Luke till Luke tried to kill him. He seems to be a bit of a lost boy in search of a place.
Heh, you clearly haven’t seen Disney’s Beauty and the Beast, then, because that film had Gaston being completely irredeemable, as bad as one can get (even if it WAS sloppily handled). Still, from Belle’s behavior, she came across as fairly unsympathetic in the movie, acting far more like an SJW feminist than Rey (at least Rey had the excuse of her essentially being a slave in all but name and being forced to work in a waste dump due to her parents ditching her. Belle had a loving dad and she STILL complained just because the village viewed her as “odd”.). And you certainly haven’t seen the Shrek movies either, where most of the villains, at least compared to the ogres, were handsome for the most part.
But yeah, overall, they’ve really done a bad job showing the First Order as appropriately evil and menacing. Okay, they probably were a bit more evil than the Empire due to actually HAVING on-screen atrocities besides blowing up a planet (not to mention actually BEING based on a real life evil group while the Empire was, contrary to popular belief, actually based on America), but not really evil enough. Doesn’t help that the so-called heroes since at least Return of the Jedi dabbled in moral relativism all the time, while the villains are pretty much the only ones who have any REAL standards.
Yes I have, but I said science fiction. They aren't science fiction, they're myth/fantasy. Different rules.
Still, from Belle’s behavior, she came across as fairly unsympathetic in the movie,
I straight up hate Belle. She's nothing but a little snob. She has a loving father, lives in a beautiful village... she just hates having to work for a living. She's an eye-rolling intellectual (or thinks she is, because she's read a few books.) In fact, all she wants is to read books and be waited on. Of course she's happy in the castle. She gets to read books, be waited on by servants, and everyone makes a fuss over her every minute. She's truly a Democrat.
Yeah, no kidding. While I won’t go so far as to say I hate Belle (the sequels and expanded universe stuff redeemed her for the most part, not quite enough to salvage her, though), she definitely was a badly done character. And most stuff that actually would have made her sympathetic got cut out because Linda Woolverton basically wanted to push radical feminism on the masses, in a very similar manner to what Disney’s doing right now with Star Wars in fact. And they really overrate her intellect, which is little more than her reading books that even little kids could read flawlessly. And forget a Democrat, she’s pretty much a model Jacobin. And in fact, that’s EXACTLY what I fear about Belle right now, that she’ll backstab Beast and her friends in favor of Rousseau’s views, and probably even go all Nibelheim on her village, like this in fact: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zL82xb4gzGM And the reason I fear that is because that’s EXACTLY what people of her type have done in the French Revolution and similar movements, and don’t get me started on Sartre, for all of his intellect, basically singing praises for Mao Zedong and Che Guevara.
Ariel from The Little Mermaid tends to get hated on a lot with her flaws emphasized quite a bit, and yet, she actually comes across as a lot more sympathetic and redeemable compared to Belle. At least Ariel actually cleaned up her messes she may have caused, actually risked her life to save her friends and loved ones, and when push comes to shove, she most certainly would try to fight any threats against her loved ones, even in her debut film, let alone expanded universe materials (not to mention, quite frankly, I found Ariel far more palatable than her original counterpart from Hans Christian Andersen’s version of the tale).
As far as Star Wars, yeah, that’s a valid point. Though to be fair, some people consider Star Wars space fantasy rather than true science fiction (not that it makes much difference, though... It involves people in space with extremely advanced technology and even a degree of pseudoscience engaging in various high-tech stuff and space battles. As far as I can tell, they’re one and the same in all but a few degrees.).
He most definitely does need changing. Just because he’s not inherently evil doesn’t mean he ain’t evil. He was already falling under the sway of Snoke when Luke tried seriously thought about killing him. He is a petulant angry man who blames the world (well, galaxy I guess) for all of his problems. People like that are evil, they do bad things for bad reasons, like Alfred said they seek vengeance for being born. He might be a lost boy in search of a place, but he keeps lighting everything on fire, which make it hard to find a place. And having killed Snoke he saw his chance to be the dictator, and there’s no push in him to be a benevolent dictator, he just wants to be large and in charge. Rey was smart to get the hell away from that. It can’t be tempered, every time they had a fight he’d have blown up another planet.
Oh yeah, and Ariel actually worked very hard to get her happy ending, a bit similar to the American Dream if you think about it. Sure, Ursula’s deal was pretty much the only reason she was able to become human, but she WAS planning on just seeing Eric in mermaid form and learning about humanity that way, and in fact, the only time the deal even became remotely a possibility was because her dad blew up her grotto right in front of her. Not to mention Ariel didn’t knowingly endanger her dad, especially when she thought Ursula had in fact redeemed herself for fairly understandable reasons, while Belle arguably knowingly endangered her dad to possibly being abducted by Beast again after deciding to flee the castle, due to her explicitly violating the deal SHE MADE to ensure his freedom.
He could have killed Snoke at any time. He didn’t until Rey was threatened.
He couldn’t have. Snoke was smarter than him, more powerful, and totally controlled him, and of course could read his mind. The only reason he got Snoke when he did was Snoke’s ego allowed him to think Ren was gunning for Rey. Without that second target and villainous monologing/ moment of triumph stupidity Ren never had a chance against Snoke.
If Snoke could read his mind, I cannot imagine he was unable to see that his loyalty had abruptly vanished. Frankly, it was a silly scene, and we’re both wasting our time trying to make sense of it.
Go outside once in awhile.
Maybe go camping?
Customer of mine runs an MMA studio. We got to talking about their students and it came up that they were 98% male.
He explained that he had to only put woman against woman in sparring because the women NEVER won against guys. They would hit men and be surprised at how little effect it had on them. Leg sweeps by women rarely worked against larger men. They would try to flip them like they had seen in the movies and it only worked if the guy was totally unprepared for it. He went on to share how some women complained that it wasn't fair and how were they expected to defend themselves? He suggested concealed carry.
That’s good to know.
And for the record, there should be a rule in writing fiction that bars women from taking down men three times their size unless they are either A., not actually human to begin with (ie, they’re humanoid mythological creatures like mermaids or space aliens like the Kryptonians, or even cyborgs, and even there, there should be a male of the same species who is obviously stronger than they are specifically to reinforce that the only reason those females beat up male humans is precisely because they weren’t human), or B., they are actually skilled at martial arts by a substantial degree (hey, if Bruce Lee can beat up a lot of heavyset guys with his martial arts despite being a toothpick and lightweight, I see no reason why women can’t do that), and even there, have a specific number that indicates they had to work significantly harder than the men do in training to even come close to reaching that level.
Villains always get that ego boost at the moment of victory, which makes them monologue and miss the fact that they aren’t actually at the moment of victory. It’s basic American story telling. And i’m not sure Ren was ever really loyal to Snoke, some fear, but mostly I think it was just Snoke told him the crap he wanted to hear. Nothing silly nor hard to understand about it, it’s a normal scene you see in movie after movie after movie. 90% of all James Bond villains die from the same thing, monologues are lethal.
Even when the villain knows monologuing is a trap they fall into it, they just love it.
Not necessarily. I know there were a few instances of the villains monologuing that if anything DID come across as successful overall in their plans. Like, for example, Liquid Ocelot in MGS4. Probably also Hot Coldman in Peace Walker as well. And let’s not forget MGS2 with the Patriots. All those guys monologued, and they actually succeeded in their plans, if they hadn’t already succeeded in their plans anyway.
Not to mention being sexually attracted to his sister ...
At least Vader had good reason to be p*ssed off at the Galaxy or Destiny or Life - even before we see his scarred and deformed pate (or the back of it) in Episode 5, we understand that he isn't wearing that get-up for kicks... that his mask is some sort of life-support system... that his chest-plate is some sort of iron lung. Then, in Episode 6 ("Return of the Jedi"), we see his face, which confirms everything. Further, the (hated) Prequels show us how he lost his wife and children (who, his is told, died at birth).
The scene with him crawling using his one functioning (android) limb after having every other appendage (incl., no doubt, his genitals) lasered off, and how his head literally bursts into flame, makes it clear to us that we can't blame him for being bad (which truly helps legitimize his being a bad-ass). (It's the single scene from the three Prequels that I'd save.)
Of course, it was ultimately all his own fault - but he would still have a right to be cranky, dontchathink?
The millenial, Kylo Ren?! Darth Pyjamaboy? Emo Vader? What has he got to be angry about? His skin is flawless, his lips well moisturized, his 'do perfectly coiffed. I suppose that maybe his unpayable student loans (for "Transracial Interpretive Dancing," no doubt) might be bugging him. Or did he lose his I-Pod?
If Rey had (seemingly) consented to join Kylo in "ruling the Galaxy" - say, with one proviso like "but let the Resistance fleet go!" - she could have wrapped him around her little finger. "Oh, Kylo... You're so big and strong and full of the Force! I find you so strangely... attractive! Let that fool flotilla of lame-o's go! Forget about them! I want to learn more about you!"
With his lack of self-discipline and self-control, he would have leapt at the chance.
And if, two days later, the "relationship" went south or he finally demanded actual consummation - well, by then, the Resistance would have been long gone / in relative safety.
Regards,
"Only the Sith deal in absolutes!"
Which statement is itself an absolute!
Regards,
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