No, Forcing Jews To Bake Swastika Cakes Is Not Like Forcing Homophobes To Bake Gay Cakes

The Forward ^ | Jenny Singer | December 8, 2017

[nickcarraway]

New Year’s resolutions: get outdoors more often, read more books, and stop hanging out with people who only bring up the Holocaust as a way to illustrate unrelated arguments and never to talk about the systematic murder of six million Jews.

This week the editorial board of the Chicago Tribune published an editorial, “Wedding Cakes And Conscience,” contending that a baker in Colorado being forced to design a wedding cake for a gay couple would constitute a violation of his freedom of expression. To illustrate the point, the Tribune encouraged readers to understand Colorado baker Jack Phillips’ predicament, saying, “imagine a Jewish baker being required to put a swastika on a cake.”

Read more: https://forward.com/schmooze/389592/no-forcing-jews-to-bake-swastika-cakes-is-not-like-forcing-homophobes-to-ba/

The newspaper rounded off the article about why the gay couple should stop “forcing a baker to swallow his objections” by pointing out that the cake situation is not the same as Black Americans being turned away from businesses during the Jim Crow area, since the issue there was just that a lot of the time Black people needed to use the bathroom, which is a “basic bodily function.” You know, that thing that happens after you eat a cake with a swastika on it.

Freedom of expression really is an amazing thing. In only one article, a newspaper managed to take anti-Semitism out of context to make a point about how gay people should be grateful and stop complaining, while saying that the Black civil rights movement was mostly propelled by the need to use the bathroom.

Is there a journalism award for insulting three minority groups at once? If so, nominate the Tribune.

[Elsie]

It can’t be the same because there is no such thing as a “homophobe.” That is a made-up word invented by the Left 'normophobes' to force their agenda on everyone.

[Elsie]

Bingo!

[metmom]

Levity aside - no business should be compelled to provide customized services to clients against anything they disagree with.

That's right! The government has no business telling people how to live their lives.

And the fact that someone else would bake them a cake is irrelevant. They aren't upset that they can't get a cake. They just want a case to establish precedent. They could get that cake somewhere else.

But they didn't and chose to sue instead. It's very clear what they are up to.

[ROCKLOBSTER]

Yabut, what about a trannie baker? Does it have to bake a Swastika cake?

And what about yer average Nazi baker, does he have to bake a faggot cake?

[Eleutheria5]

Or crosses flambeau.

[Eleutheria5]

What would a gay cake look like? This thread means nothing without pictures.

[SamAdams76]

Just a general question. Who would actually want to eat a cake that somebody was forced to bake for you against their will?

[American in Israel]

No, having the government decide every mundane thing and saying what everybody can and cannot do is not freedom.

[Olog-hai]

That’s what the author here is proposing the government do, of course.

[Eleutheria5]

What about a gay Nazi forcing a Jew to bake a cake that’s gay but also Nazi? Why not let people who don’t want to bake a cake run their business how they like.

[Eleutheria5]

“New Year’s resolutions: get outdoors more often, read more books, and stop hanging out with people who only bring up the Holocaust as a way to illustrate unrelated arguments and never to talk about the systematic murder of six million Jews.”

Right. Got it. Stop hanging out with leftists.

[kaehurowing]

Halloween aficionados are not a protected class.

---

Neither are people who want gay wedding cakes.

The record is clear he did not discriminate against gay people or anyone else, he just would not participate in a gay wedding.

[Little Ray]

Okay.

In any case I run towards freedom: If you don’t want to make them a cake, for whatever reason, you don’t have make ‘em a cake.

[daniel1212]

No, but if they were as homosexual marriage is then the argument holds.

But they aren't so the argument doesn't.

Correct. What i said said was "if...." Yet the religious are, to some extent, a protected class. The showdown is when one protected class, who cannot be required to paint a picture, make a sign, etc. if that is offensive to him (nor should anyone else), discriminates against a protected class who cannot be refused service (aside from a church, so far) on the basis of their class, as expressed in the type of service that they want.

If the men of Sodom were simply refused service at all (no homosexuals allowed) then that would be a case of outlawed discrimination, but here a man who is essentially an artist is being asked to make a custom work with a message that would be going against his conscience to make.

An yes, each wedding cake is a distinctive work of art, which no one else is going to buy unless some renovation is done to it.

To compel a Jack Phillips to create any kind of expression a person asks for, esp. by imposing so massive a fine (135,000) would, in principle, also require such things as a patriot-type or Jewish advertising agency to create an ad campaign promoting Palestinian propaganda and demonizing Israel.

Or a Jewish artist-for-hire being compelled to provide distinctive Christian works.

At the least, presuming the issue relates to works of art, not essential services or basic things like Uber, the denial of which of which would cause much inconvenience), then like as accommodation is made for a sabbatharian to be excused from providing service on the basis of religious conscience under the premise that the company can easily get another to supply the service, one should not be compelled to provide any service that is contrary to his sincerely help religious beliefs.

But of course, the real problem is when you equate a class of society that is based on a particular behavior with those based on amoral aspects such as race.

But besides not making choosing sexual preference a civil right in the first place perhaps a more tolerable recourse would be to broadly forbid discrimination, but fine violators simply the amount of any additional cost of the replacement and minimal compensation to the person's inconvenience, not hurt feeling$. Thus no one would be forced to go against conscience (unless paying the fine would be) any more than refusing to move his car on the Sabbath would be if it was street-sweeping day.

[daniel1212]

I've yet to see ANYONE 'forced' to bake a cake against their wishes. I have seen a LOT of THREATS of quite dire things that will allegedly happen to that person if they do NOT bake a cake.

When you are fined 135.000 for not creating a special work since it is offensive to you, then you are in essence being forced to bake a cake, with the devil being in the details.

[DoodleDawg]

Neither are people who want gay wedding cakes.

I believe in Colorado homosexuals are a protected class.

[Elsie]

Was the ‘cake’ ever baked?

[Elsie]

I believe in Colorado homosexuals are a protected class.

There will come a day when they are no longer in Colorado...

A BIBLICAL Message to LGBT folks EVERYWHERE!

---

 

Genesis 13:13

Now the men of Sodom were wicked and were sinning greatly against the LORD.

Genesis 18:20-21
20. Then the LORD said, "The outcry against Sodom and Gomorrah is so great and their sin so grievous
21. that I will go down and see if what they have done is as bad as the outcry that has reached me. If not, I will know."

Genesis 19:4-7
4. Before they had gone to bed, all the men from every part of the city of Sodom--both young and old--surrounded the house.
5. They called to Lot, "Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them."
6. Lot went outside to meet them and shut the door behind him
7. and said, "No, my friends. Don't do this wicked thing.

---

Leviticus niv

18:22 Do not have sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman; that is detestable.

20:13 If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.

 

 

---

---

Psalms 12:8 The wicked freely strut about when what is vile is honored among men.

Isaiah 3:9 The look on their faces testifies against them; they parade their sin like Sodom; they do not hide it. Woe to them! They have brought disaster upon themselves.

2 Peter 2:13b Their idea of pleasure is to carouse in broad daylight. They are blots and blemishes, reveling in their pleasures while they feast with you.

Ezekiel 16:49-50
49. "`Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy.
50. They were haughty and did detestable things before me. Therefore I did away with them as you have seen.

---

Romans 1     New American Bible (Revised Edition) (NABRE)

 

 18 The wrath of God is indeed being revealed from heaven against every impiety and wickedness of those who suppress the truth by their wickedness. 19 For what can be known about God is evident to them, because God made it evident to them. 20 Ever since the creation of the world, his invisible attributes of eternal power and divinity have been able to be understood and perceived in what he has made. As a result, they have no excuse; 21 for although they knew God they did not accord him glory as God or give him thanks. Instead, they became vain in their reasoning, and their senseless minds were darkened. 22 While claiming to be wise, they became fools 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for the likeness of an image of mortal man or of birds or of four-legged animals or of snakes.

 

24 Therefore, God handed them over to impurity through the lusts of their hearts for the mutual degradation of their bodies. 25 They exchanged the truth of God for a lie and revered and worshiped the creature rather than the creator, who is blessed forever. Amen. 26 Therefore, God handed them over to degrading passions. Their females exchanged natural relations for unnatural, 27 and the males likewise gave up natural relations with females and burned with lust for one another. Males did shameful things with males and thus received in their own persons the due penalty for their perversity. 28 And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God handed them over to their undiscerning mind to do what is improper. 29 They are filled with every form of wickedness, evil, greed, and malice; full of envy, murder, rivalry, treachery, and spite. 

---

2 Peter 2

1. But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them--bringing swift destruction on themselves.
2. Many will follow their shameful ways and will bring the way of truth into disrepute.
3. In their greed these teachers will exploit you with stories they have made up. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping.
4. For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell, putting them into gloomy dungeons to be held for judgment;
5. if he did not spare the ancient world when he brought the flood on its ungodly people, but protected Noah, a preacher of righteousness, and seven others;
6. if he condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah by burning them to ashes, and made them an example of what is going to happen to the ungodly;
7. and if he rescued Lot, a righteous man, who was distressed by the filthy lives of lawless men
8. (for that righteous man, living among them day after day, was tormented in his righteous soul by the lawless deeds he saw and heard)--
9. if this is so, then the Lord knows how to rescue godly men from trials and to hold the unrighteous for the day of judgment, while continuing their punishment.
10. This is especially true of those who follow the corrupt desire of the sinful nature and despise authority. Bold and arrogant, these men are not afraid to slander celestial beings;
11. yet even angels, although they are stronger and more powerful, do not bring slanderous accusations against such beings in the presence of the Lord.
12. But these men blaspheme in matters they do not understand. They are like brute beasts, creatures of instinct, born only to be caught and destroyed, and like beasts they too will perish.
13. They will be paid back with harm for the harm they have done. Their idea of pleasure is to carouse in broad daylight. They are blots and blemishes, reveling in their pleasures while they feast with you.

---

---

But there IS hope!!!

1 Corinthians 6:9-11

9. Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived:
Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders
10. nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
11. And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

---

If you could NOT change, you would be in most pitiful shape...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

---

---

The Health Risks of gay sex.

Psalms 12:8 The wicked freely strut about when what is vile is honored among men.

Isaiah 3:9 The look on their faces testifies against them; they parade their sin like Sodom; they do not hide it. Woe to them! They have brought disaster upon themselves.

2 Peter 2:13b Their idea of pleasure is to carouse in broad daylight. They are blots and blemishes, reveling in their pleasures while they feast with you.

Ezekiel 16:49-50
49. "`Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy.
50. They were haughty and did detestable things before me. Therefore I did away with them as you have seen.

---

Romans 1     New American Bible (Revised Edition) (NABRE)

 

 18 The wrath of God is indeed being revealed from heaven against every impiety and wickedness of those who suppress the truth by their wickedness. 19 For what can be known about God is evident to them, because God made it evident to them. 20 Ever since the creation of the world, his invisible attributes of eternal power and divinity have been able to be understood and perceived in what he has made. As a result, they have no excuse; 21 for although they knew God they did not accord him glory as God or give him thanks. Instead, they became vain in their reasoning, and their senseless minds were darkened. 22 While claiming to be wise, they became fools 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for the likeness of an image of mortal man or of birds or of four-legged animals or of snakes.

 

24 Therefore, God handed them over to impurity through the lusts of their hearts for the mutual degradation of their bodies. 25 They exchanged the truth of God for a lie and revered and worshiped the creature rather than the creator, who is blessed forever. Amen. 26 Therefore, God handed them over to degrading passions. Their females exchanged natural relations for unnatural, 27 and the males likewise gave up natural relations with females and burned with lust for one another. Males did shameful things with males and thus received in their own persons the due penalty for their perversity. 28 And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God handed them over to their undiscerning mind to do what is improper. 29 They are filled with every form of wickedness, evil, greed, and malice; full of envy, murder, rivalry, treachery, and spite. 

---

2 Peter 2

1. But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them--bringing swift destruction on themselves.
2. Many will follow their shameful ways and will bring the way of truth into disrepute.
3. In their greed these teachers will exploit you with stories they have made up. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping.
4. For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell, putting them into gloomy dungeons to be held for judgment;
5. if he did not spare the ancient world when he brought the flood on its ungodly people, but protected Noah, a preacher of righteousness, and seven others;
6. if he condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah by burning them to ashes, and made them an example of what is going to happen to the ungodly;
7. and if he rescued Lot, a righteous man, who was distressed by the filthy lives of lawless men
8. (for that righteous man, living among them day after day, was tormented in his righteous soul by the lawless deeds he saw and heard)--
9. if this is so, then the Lord knows how to rescue godly men from trials and to hold the unrighteous for the day of judgment, while continuing their punishment.
10. This is especially true of those who follow the corrupt desire of the sinful nature and despise authority. Bold and arrogant, these men are not afraid to slander celestial beings;
11. yet even angels, although they are stronger and more powerful, do not bring slanderous accusations against such beings in the presence of the Lord.
12. But these men blaspheme in matters they do not understand. They are like brute beasts, creatures of instinct, born only to be caught and destroyed, and like beasts they too will perish.
13. They will be paid back with harm for the harm they have done. Their idea of pleasure is to carouse in broad daylight. They are blots and blemishes, reveling in their pleasures while they feast with you.

---

---

But there IS hope!!!

1 Corinthians 6:9-11

9. Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived:
Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders
10. nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
11. And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

---

If you could NOT change, you would be in most pitiful shape...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

---

---

The Health Risks of gay sex.

[daniel1212]

Was the ‘cake’ ever baked?

That is irrelevant. A company can make a poster board for anyone, but the message they put on it can be unique, and the nature of this is the issue in this case that should exempt one from having to create that work. Half-baked judgments against them notwithstanding.

[kaehurowing]

I believe in Colorado homosexuals are a protected class.

---

Tht’s irrelevant. I could be black, but if I ordered a cake that said “Kill Whitey” a cake maker would be fully entitled to not bake it as being offensive and against his beliefs, and just because I’m black doesn’t mean I can force him to make it.