Posted on 10/20/2017 2:33:48 PM PDT by drewh
No Brown Deer, I don't believe in "Socialism."
Let's lay the facts on the table:
- The high tax states (CA, NY, NJ, CT, MA, etc.) contribute more in Federal taxes by fare than other states. For every dollar the high tax states give to the Feds, they get back pennies. Many of the low tax states make out like bandits in what they get back in revenue from everyone else. This is undisputed! And if you want to research it - GO! Do so. Then get back to me.
- The deductions that are so "evil" for individuals are being preserved in this bill - thanks to corporations and businesses that have given big bucks to K Street Lobbyists. "Pay to Play!" In other words: corruption. A member of the House Ways and Means Committee that writes the tax code defended the preservation of the tax deduction for corporations, and not individuals, by saying that without that deduction, businesses would be paying so much in Federal taxes that "They would go out of business!" FACT! Google it.
- I HATE this geographic arrow you throw at anyone who lives in a certain states - as if MILLIONS of us are LESS Americans!
Let me tell you something Brown Deer, and you listen good. I served as a military officer for over 20 years, and lived in many states, and also overseas, and also deployed to hell holes while fighting for this nation in 3 wars and many other engagements. The state I now live in has a very conservative county that voted overwhelmingly for Trump, and a Republican Governor. The fact that we have to fight Democrats at other levels does not, NOT make us AMERICANS! You blowhard! How DARE you!! You should be ashamed of yourself.
So continue. I would love to hear your pathetic rebuttal.
Corporations do pay taxes, or else they would not be asking and lobbying for tax cuts.
You really want to dispute this?
If so, this will be a really fun thread.
Do corporations pass on increased taxes to the consumer when they can?
Certainly.
California residents paid an average $10,408 to the IRS in Fiscal Year 2015, compared to the national average of $10,234. In 2012, it was $7,691 vs. $7,919. In 2011, it was $7,463 vs. $7,632.
In 2015, the median household income in California was $64,500 compared to only $55,775 for the United States.
So, they are paying the about same in federal taxes as the rest of the country, but are much more income than others!
When they can? Corporations only make money from their customer...all taxes are paid by consumers of their product.
So they, like millions, will get raped by this "tax cut" unless it is changed. What are you trying to tell me? CA homeowners will get screwed by this proposal.
NONSENSE!
Californians will start paying their fair share. What they pay to the state of California, has nothing whatsoever to do with the federal government!
They do not pay property taxes to the federal government. You know that. So, stop being ignorant!
Balderdash. Socialism isn't better than much of anything—certainly not the mythical "free market".
Albeit, given the realities of the "progressive" income tax, and the way that it has been engineered by corporate interests to benefit corporate interests at the expense of the working class, the US economy can hardly be considered "free market", whatever its current anemic GDP might be.
The only thing socialism is "better" than is more socialism...
“stimulating” the economy is socialist Keynesian economics?
the feds need tax revenue to run the military and diplomatic missions. not much else. the private economy can be made healthier through reduction in regulations, as well as shifting the tax burden to those who export their
products here.
You’re GOPe.
Swamp dweller.
Come on Owen. GOPe? Swampdweller? you make me laugh.
Well if the middle class see a tax increase I can guarantee that Trump doesn’t win a second term.
“Just as probable is that it will be soo bad that he (Trump) can not sign it”
The way they are passing this, they only need simple majorities (50 votes in the Senate), so there is no real need to do anything according to socialist (oops, I mean Democratic Party) ideology.
It is the opportunity of a lifetime to make real market-based reforms.
All the more reason to kick back at the GOP-E swamp, if they do hand the President a steaming pile of big Government and a growing dependent class in their final version.
Like Charlie Brown and Lucy with the football, my hopes are rising again, right on cue. This is a real chance at meaningful redemption for the Republican Party. Maybe they will really deliver this time (because big donors want it too).
Really, there are so many powerful levers that could be in the tax bill - even if they screw up on some, it might still be a net positive. The anticipation is killing me...
After all, it's all the government's money, don'tcha know, and they are deigning to spend more of it on us for our own nasty, selfish selves.
As I said on another thread, to compensate for SALT, re-introduce the personal exemption and stretch the lowest bracket to cover an amount of income equal to that subject to FICA. Also, get rid of the 3rd, 4th and 5th brackets, which are just progressive, elitist sops to liberals. Don’t tax interest income, either.
Full disclosure, I would simply go to the 15-28 tax system Ronald Reagan had, with 15 covering all FICA income and eliminating SALT (red states subsidizing blue states) and Mortgage Interest deduction (renters subsidizing homeowners) and nearly all other deductions and tax credits. Same $12,000 standard deduction, with charity deduction and deduction for hardening assets against EMP ADDED to that and the personal and dependent exemptions on the same form, instead of the itemizing alternative BS. No interest income need be declared, either. Elimination of all 0bamacare taxes. Capital gains and dividends back down to 15 percent. 5 percent general tariff to replace the 20,000 or so individual tariffs we have now. 5 percent tax on foreign income and repatriation, individual and corporate (instead of 20 or 35). 5 percent “death tax”, as opposed to 45 percent, with the same generous exemption as before. 20 percent tax for both corporate and pass-through income, with immediate and full expensing for equipment, infrastructure and hardening against EMP. Same $18,000 tax-free allowance for 401(k) plans, instead of the $2,400 proposed in the House.
Dependent exemptions would include people other than children, if needed.
But of course, this is GOP-e and Trump we’re talking about here, so bend over?
I would eliminate SALT for the corporate scum and the pass-through income as well. What’s good for the goose and all that.
I believe you are quite right about the Tax Cut Bill, its benefits for the economy, the ripe political opportunity it brings, even with accidental blemishes, and also the fearsome risk of more NeverTrump political mischief.
“red states subsidizing blue states”
That is a misconception.
Far and away the blue states subsidize the red states, through increased Federal Income taxes, per capita AND in total.
Blue states pay in more than they receive back, and usually, red states pay in less than what they receive.
Generally blue states subsidize red states. Per capita and in total.
I agree with you on the spending side. Oftentimes, red states ARE subsidized by blue states. My solution for that would be to use block grants, where appropriate, proportional in each state to to its number of members in the electoral college. That would preserve both equity and proportionality among states and hopefully eliminate some of the cross-subsidies.
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