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US Navy Loss Of The USS Guardian, 2 Patrol Boats, USS Fitzgerald and USS McCain. (trunc)
gCaptain ^ | Aug 21, 2017 | CDR Joe Tenaglia, USN (Ret)

Posted on 08/23/2017 10:45:50 AM PDT by Oatka

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Lots of interesting maritime articles at gCaptain.
1 posted on 08/23/2017 10:45:50 AM PDT by Oatka
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To: Oatka

Eight years of obama trans/gay training, affirmative action promotions, fears of any EO complaint and not enough time spent learning how to sail/fight...


2 posted on 08/23/2017 10:52:55 AM PDT by 2banana (My common ground with terrorists - they want to die for islam and we want to kill them)
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To: Oatka

Great article.

Thanks for posting this.


3 posted on 08/23/2017 10:56:25 AM PDT by Grampa Dave (Did voting for Trump to be our President, make 62+ million of us into Dumb Deplorable Racists? Nah!!)
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To: Oatka

Close to this time last year, the USS Louisiana (SSBN-743) collided with the offshore support vessel USNS Eagleview (T-AGSE-3) in the Strait of Juan de Fuca off the coast of Washington.


4 posted on 08/23/2017 11:00:09 AM PDT by Theoria (I should never have surrendered. I should have fought until I was the last man alive)
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To: Oatka
>>Aviators are not expected to get familiar with the plane and then learn on the job to see if they can do it.

No, we were expected to do three or four jobs at once. First, you are a division officer. Second, you are an airman (pilot, NFO). Third you are Scutt Job 1 (Morale Officer, Coffee Mess Officer). Fourth you are whatever they make you on deployment (facilities sanitation officer, Family Affairs Officer, whatever). You are always tired and if it weren't for NATOPS rest requirements, you would fly until you did something stupid and killed everyone aboard the aircraft. Until NATOPS was instituted in the 1960s, that's just what happened.

That aside, the surface Navy has been moving towards more accidents as under-manning and lowered standards have continued. LCS was originally to have a 40 man crew. That fantasy blew-up the first time an LCS went to sea.

5 posted on 08/23/2017 11:02:42 AM PDT by pabianice (LINE)
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To: Oatka

Now please list all the merchant marine issues that occurred in the same time frame and we can do more than just a straw-man.

The only difference is the merchant marine may still be able to work after the incident, in the Navy (now not so in the past - did you know Adm Nimitz ran one of his commands aground?) your done - career over - OOD, CO, others....

In WWII COs of frigates were often junior LCDRs. Yet there was no such call. Merchants have their issues too... their requirements don’t include fighting the ship... and that is part of why the Navy has more watch standees than merchants.

There are reasons for the different systems. Few have served in both. The issue from this past OODs perspective is a lack of training time at sea.


6 posted on 08/23/2017 11:07:46 AM PDT by reed13k
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To: 2banana

I agree.


7 posted on 08/23/2017 11:18:00 AM PDT by Dapper 26
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USCG Academy provides training and all requirements needed to graduate and apply for their 100-ton license. Many hours of ship driving in maritime simulators as well as summer assignments aboard ships where they integrate into the watch schedule to amass apprenticeship sea-time. All that, a 4 year degree and a paycheck too.


8 posted on 08/23/2017 11:22:16 AM PDT by USCG SimTech
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To: 2banana

Interesting that CDR Joe Tenaglia’s article mentions nonetheless of that. Did he retire BEFORE Obama rammed all that crap down DOD’s throat? Maybe he didn’t experience any of that junk.


9 posted on 08/23/2017 11:23:13 AM PDT by ProtectOurFreedom
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To: Oatka
US ships run by Chinese chips, what could possibly go wrong?

IMHo, the "secret weapon" used to cause the collision of both the Fitzgerald and the McCain is the labor arbitrage behind outsourcing chip production to China.

Very Chinese approach, really. Plant termites in the house then let the house fall in its own good time. Then you can show everyone your clean hands and express great sympathy for for the people who no longer have a house.

JMHo

10 posted on 08/23/2017 11:26:51 AM PDT by Rashputin (Jesus Christ doesn't evacuate His troops, He leads them to vitrory !!)
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To: pabianice

I see the erosion of leadership in the enlisted ranks. The CPO actually ran the division, with the LPO in a more take charge role. The JO had the time to concentrate on his other duties. It just doesn’t seem to be that way anymore.


11 posted on 08/23/2017 11:38:19 AM PDT by fredhead (Duty, Honor, Country.....Honor, Courage, Commitment)
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To: 2banana

Answer - hubris


12 posted on 08/23/2017 11:56:02 AM PDT by vooch (America First Drain the Swamp)
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To: Oatka
In my opinion the surface Navy expects too much too soon from its surface junior officers.

My neighbor once told me that, as a junior naval officer, his captain ordered him to take his ship away from the dock and head towards sea. He told me he didn't have the slightest idea about how to do it. BUT, there was a senior NCO behind him, who had done it many, many times, and the NCO told him (quietly, so the Captain didn't hear) how to do it step-by-step.

13 posted on 08/23/2017 12:03:51 PM PDT by libertylover (Fake News = Hate News)
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To: Oatka

How is it possible Adm. John M. Richardson has not been fired yet? His navy can’t even sail from point A to point B without crashing into stuff and killing sailors. He needs to be replaced immediately!


14 posted on 08/23/2017 1:04:42 PM PDT by KyCats
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To: Rashputin

15 posted on 08/23/2017 1:56:52 PM PDT by rlmorel (Those who sit on the picket fence are impaled by it.)
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To: Oatka

If memory serves, didn’t that weird USS Zimwalt have to be towed in on her first shake down cruise?


16 posted on 08/24/2017 4:22:55 AM PDT by GailA (Ret. SCPO wife: suck it up buttercups it's President Donald Trump!)
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To: GailA

New $4 billion USS Zumwalt breaks down again, needs tow through Panama Canal
http://www.pressherald.com/2016/11/22/uss-zumwalt-out-of-commission-again/

Tow, tow, tow your boat! US Navy’s ‘truly unstoppable’ new warship breaks down after only three weeks at sea and has to be pulled back to shore
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3357454/USS-Milwaukee-breaks-towed-base-Virginia.html


17 posted on 08/24/2017 4:28:43 AM PDT by GailA (Ret. SCPO wife: suck it up buttercups it's President Donald Trump!)
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To: Rashputin
IMHo, the "secret weapon" used to cause the collision of both the Fitzgerald and the McCain is the labor arbitrage behind outsourcing chip production to China.

Gee, maybe they read my suggestion 15-20 years ago, that any military hardware (ships, planes, missiles, weapons, electronics, radar, etc.) we sold to other countries should have a hidden self-destruct feature that our forces could activate if it was ever used against us. Maybe they've done so with the chips!

18 posted on 08/24/2017 6:34:26 AM PDT by JimRed ( TERM LIMITS, NOW! Building the Wall! TRUTH is the new HATE SPEECH.)
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To: libertylover
My neighbor once told me that, as a junior naval officer, his captain ordered him to take his ship away from the dock and head towards sea. He told me he didn't have the slightest idea about how to do it. BUT, there was a senior NCO behind him, who had done it many, many times, and the NCO told him (quietly, so the Captain didn't hear) how to do it step-by-step.

Learn by doing, under competent supervision. That's the best way. The captain likely knew that the junior officer would have the help he needed, and would learn more by doing than by watching.

19 posted on 08/24/2017 6:43:11 AM PDT by JimRed ( TERM LIMITS, NOW! Building the Wall! TRUTH is the new HATE SPEECH.)
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To: rlmorel
...the North Koreans, Chinese Communists or Russians hacked the NAV systems...

Or techies from Antifa, MoveOn, CPUSA, Resist, Occupy...

20 posted on 08/24/2017 6:46:51 AM PDT by JimRed ( TERM LIMITS, NOW! Building the Wall! TRUTH is the new HATE SPEECH.)
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