Posted on 04/13/2017 8:27:52 AM PDT by ColdOne
Irrelevant. We don’t know what predicated his statement. Maybe the wannabecop said, Mr., we’ll drag you out of that darn seat if you won’t get up and walk.
The pilot is the captain of the ship. The security was there at the invitation of the captain. Security were not LEOs. Security has no authorization from the city to use excessive force on seated passengers. The stews are as responsible for the safety of the passengers as the captain because they are agents of the captain. Noone stopped the violence even after blood was drawn. That’s a very Yuge and Bigly problem for United.
Security has no authorization from the city to use excessive force on seated passengers.
Then what are they there for?
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The law in this case is 100% with the abused passenger.
You are flying on sour wine vapors.
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The UAL employees were non-fare, stand-by, late-checkin passengers, they were the lowest priority passenger w.r.t. UALs involuntary denial of boarding passenger selection process. UAL’s contract of carriage does not include special exceptions for non-aircrew employees — nor should it.
A contract of carriage is part of being a common carrier, it is serious business. It must conform to federal law and federal regulations. If an airline loses its common carrier status it cannot operate.
If UAL has another contract with their employees, that is between UAL and the employees (or their union). It would have nothing to do with Dr. Dao or the contract of carriage.
There's some interesting information here:
Business Insider: "How Airlines like United Choose Who to Kick Off a Flight"
Relevant quote here:
Do airlines have the right to throw you off their planes even if you haven't done anything wrong?
"Yes," Harteveldt said. "Remember, it is their aircraft and their seat — you're just renting it to get from point A to point B."
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Yes, United is in way over their toupee on this one!
(and I’m sure their counsel has put it to them by now)
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ome legal discussion on MSNBC (sorry):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RhjEIN09nx8
here is a question that I imagine UAL would prefer not to be forced to answer in civil court:
could UAL employees have forseen that Chicago cops would have employed excessive force to remove a passenger from its airplane?
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Read your own post.
The exchange of funds for goods of value had taken place.
The seat was no longer theirs for the duration of the flight, unless fraud had been discovered.
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Only 2 people left and we don’t know why - maybe they liked Chicago and liked the idea of a free night . Maybe they were sheeple. Maybe they were broke and needed 400% of their ticket in cash. The dr and his wife were number 3 and 4. They didn’t want to be drafted. The logical solution would have been to tell operations there was no room for the jumpcrew. Call uber. Jump on fed-x. Hey numbers 5 and 6 - you’re out. And you can bet your bippy if Dr was a minority other than Asian, that is exactly what would have happened. Except, nobody should have been asked to leave once seated on the aircraft - especially a senior citizen couple.United lost $350Million in hours and the stock is still $100million short. That’s what outrage does.
Did you read the article at the link I posted?
I fly as infrequently as possible because I hate the whole process of commercial air travel -- and I find airlines, fellow passengers and TSA personnel all difficult to deal with. Interestingly, I have fewer problems with airline personnel than with the other two.
well then that would apply to all of us, all the time, any time united whiffed too much of its own farts and decided it wanted to kick any or all of us off any of its flights.
is that what we are saying? if so, maybe we are all better off avoiding united (?) and are other airlines any better, at least in theory? the only alternative to airlines for overseas travel are luxury liners (yikes) or a private yacht (yikes**2)...
I probably have NOT seen all the videos, and My local ‘NEWS” stations are pathetic. They edit everything including the local sunsets.
However: Dao could have handled this entirely differently. I have been bumped off a plane—with a minor compensation—only an overnight in a airport hotel. I had to notify my pickup people that I would be on a different flight...and this was winter, and I was flying to attend my Dad’s funeral preparations.
This guy was a jerk from the first jump, IMO. The crew made it clear they needed 4 people to switch to another plane or airline. They offered up to $1000 for this inconvenience. That isn’t chump change, either.
This flight was NOT THE LAST HELICOPTER OUT OF SAIGON WHEN THAT CITY FELL.
Dao could have said that he didn’t want to be disconnected from his wife, which one channel said was traveling with him. Dao could have held out for 2 payouts—one for each him & his wife & they both could have vacated the plane.
I have been told the distance between where they were & Louisville was at best a 5 hour drive, and there were rental cars available right in the airport they were at. They could have taken $2000, rented a car, and been in Louisville in plenty of time for his ‘Appointments’ at 9 AM the next day.
Instead, he made an ass of himself.
IF there are videos where he is setting this all up before the cops dragged him off that plane, I hope the judge throws him out of court. He behaved like a 3 year old in the toy aisle when they want a new toy. A 61 year old man who CLAIMS to be a doctor gets into such a state of refusal that he gets DRAGGED off a plane. The more I think about it all, the more I think he deliberately did this refusal to push everyone’s buttons.
Another report also stated that he had lost his license for about a 10 year period for misbehavior. No details, but he certainly isn’t a person with a lily-white past. I am also baffled about why his wife didn’t settle him down & just vacate the plane.
Probably to a mega certitude. :-)
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The article is nonsense.
UCC is what applies, and UAL violated it.
They also made a false police report, which caused the police to over-react.
UAL will be history if they don’t clear this up today.
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The dr may be a jerk, but that doesn’t excuse the JBT’s (Jack Booted Thugs) actions.
I hope he gets millions. It will set a precedent that just because someone chooses to fly (a LOT of times for commerce, not just for pleasure) to a destination, they do not give up the fundamental right to be safe from physical abuse.
1. sales of goods
2. leases of goods
3. promissory notes and drafts
4. banks and banking, check collection process
5. transfers of money between banks
6. transactions involving letters of credit
7. auctions and liquidations of assets
8. storage and bailment of goods
9. securities and financial assets
Which of these areas covers domestic airline transportation?
Even if you accept UA's contention that this was a denial of boarding rather than a refusal to transport (which is even stricter). UAL failed to follow its contract of carriage for selecting Dr. Dao for removal. There is no provision for randomly selecting a passenger for removal.
Under UAL's contract, the late-boarding employees would be the lowest priority passenger.
Rule 25 (A)...
...When there is an Oversold UA flight that originates in the U.S.A. or Canada, the following provisions apply:
Section 2: Boarding Priorities - If a flight is Oversold, no one may be denied boarding against his/her will until UA or other carrier personnel first ask for volunteers who will give up their reservations willingly in exchange for compensation as determined by UA. If there are not enough volunteers, other Passengers may be denied boarding involuntarily in accordance with UA’s boarding priority:
(a) Passengers who are Qualified Individuals with Disabilities, unaccompanied minors under the age of 18 years, or minors between the ages of 5 to 15 years who use the unaccompanied minor service, will be the last to be involuntarily denied boarding if it is determined by UA that such denial would constitute a hardship.
(b) The priority of all other confirmed passengers may be determined based on a passenger’s fare class, itinerary, status of frequent flyer program membership, and the time in which the passenger presents him/herself for check-in without advanced seat assignment.
Well yeah, they can kick any of us off their flights.
If in doing so, they breach the terms of our tickets, then we have the right to monetary compensation. But not the right to stay on the aircraft.
Let’s broaden the example not just from Dao but to the whole planeload of passengers.
Let’s say a corporate executive from United goes onto the plane and announces, this flight is cancelled. Everybody off. Now! Get the F off my plane! Get out!
And let’s say he is a complete arrogant jerk about it.
Well, everyone has to get off. Even if United is breaching the terms of all of their tickets.
The passengers don’t have the right to take physical control of the aircraft and commandeer it and fly it to Albuquerque or wherever their tickets say.
They have the right to get compensation from United because United breached the terms of their tickets.
In the case of Dao, even if they breached the terms of his ticket, his right is to claim monetary damages from the breach. He doesn’t have the legal right to physically stay on the plane and insist that United fly him on that very plane to where his ticket says. He can’t sit in his seat, call his lawyer and say go to court immediately and get me an injunction to force United to fly me on this very plane right now.
So he should not be entitled to any damages from medical injuries from security removing him after he refused to get off the plane, and if security suffered any injuries fighting with him, he should have to pay for those injuries.
This lawyer needs to read the fine print on a ticket purchase.
I was scheduled to fly North West a long time back. There were rumors that they were going to have a pilots strike imminently.
My travel agent called the airline DIRECTLY—right in front of me & asked about the status of the pilots.
The agent at NW clearly stated that they were still flying & would be for the next 24 hours at least. I was flying out that night, on a red eye from los Angeles to Madison, Wis, via Minneapolis.
When I got to the airport, the NW desks were all dark.
The pilots had gone out on strike over 7 hours BEFORE we called them. I never flew NW again.
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